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Originally Posted by djtestudo
Yeah, they must have done a hell of a job. They even managed to fool the French and German intellegence.
And this has to do with the subject how...?
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Your conclusions about what "French and German intellegence" determined about Iraqi WMD before the march, 2003 invasion of Iraq are open to dispute. Consider that, in addition to the three news articles that I offer here to raise doubts about the solidity of your statement, that the political leaders of France and Germany did not share Bush and Blair's urgency to invade Iraq to pre-empt the WMD threat, and that they actively opposed the invasion. This indicates to me that, although we cannot know for sure what the consensus of these intelligence agencies actually was regarding the threat of Iraqi WMD, they did not make a persuasive enough argument to their political leaders to sway them toward the policies of Bush and Blair.
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By THOMAS WAGNER
Associated Press Writer
SEPTEMBER 25, 04:21 ET
http://wire.ap.org/?FRONTID=EUROPE&S...2dWORLD%2dREAX
LONDON (AP) - Prime Minister Tony Blair's warning about Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction appeared to win little support outside Washington, with France and China expressing skepticism.
For weeks, talk about a possible U.S.-led war against Iraq had created widespread interest about Blair's long-promised dossier about Saddam Hussein's chemical and biological arsenal.
In it and his speech to a special session of the House of Commons on Tuesday, Blair said the stockpile is not only growing, but that Saddam is prepared to use such weapons of mass destruction quickly. The intelligence dossier also said Iraq has taken steps to develop nuclear weapons.
Blair, President Bush's top ally, said he wants U.N. weapons inspectors allowed back into Iraq with no limits on their movements.
But he also supported the U.S. goal of a ``regime change'' in Baghdad, given how often Saddam has defied the world body's requirements regarding his weapons since losing the Gulf War.
Britain and the United States are two of the five permanent, veto-wielding members of the U.N. Security Council, and they have been trying to win the support of the other three - China, France and Russia - for a new resolution threatening Iraq for its continued defiance.
But the French and Chinese leaders both sounded skeptical Tuesday about Blair's speech and the dossier in comments they made while attending a summit of European and Asian leaders in Denmark.
French President Jacques Chirac said a war with Iraq is still avoidable if the U.N. Security Council is given a primary role in the crisis. Chirac reiterated there was no need for a proposed Security Council resolution threatening war if Saddam keeps U.N. arms inspectors out.
``This is not the view of France,'' said Chirac, adding that only inspectors can provide the needed proof about Saddam's weapons. ``I do not think at all that war is unavoidable.''..............
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http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/me....powell.ricin/
Wednesday, February 12, 2003 Posted: 2:58 PM EST (1958 GMT)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- European intelligence officials questioned U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell's contention Wednesday that the lethal poison involved in a terrorist plot broken up in Britain came from Iraq.
Powell cited the plot in testimony before the House International Relations Committee, arguing that part of the danger of not disarming Iraq lay in possible alliances with terrorists........
.......A French intelligence source said he was "stunned" by Powell's comment.
"There is no, repeat, no suggestion that the ricin was anything but locally produced," he said. "It was bad quality, not technically sophisticated."
Further, the source said, British authorities "are clear" that the poison was "home-made."
"Don't forget, intelligence is like a supermarket, and at that level in government, you see everything, and can pick anything," the source said.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...ixnewstop.html
German spies offered help to Saddam in run-up to war
By David Harrison in Baghdad
(Filed: 20/04/2003)
Germany's intelligence services attempted to build closer links to Saddam's secret service during the build-up to war last year, documents from the bombed Iraqi intelligence HQ in Baghdad obtained by The Telegraph reveal.
Documents recovered from Iraqi intelligence HQ in Baghdad
They show that an agent named as Johannes William Hoffner, described as a "new German representative in Iraq" who had entered the country under diplomatic cover, attended a meeting with Lt Gen Taher Jalil Haboosh, the director of Iraq's intelligence service.
During the meeting, on January 29, 2002, Lt Gen Haboosh says that the Iraqis are keen to have a relationship with Germany's intelligence agency "under diplomatic cover", adding that he hopes to develop that relationship through Mr Hoffner.
The German replies: "My organisation wants to develop its relationship with your organisation."
In return, the Iraqis offered to give lucrative contracts to German companies if the Berlin government helped prevent an American invasion of the country.
The revelations come a week after The Telegraph reported that Russia had spied for the Iraqis, passing them intelligence about a meeting between Tony Blair and Silvio Berlusconi, the Italian prime minister. Both the British and Italian governments have launched investigations.
The meeting between the Iraqi and German agents took place some six months before Chancellor Schröder's Social Democrat-led government began its policy of direct opposition to the idea of an American/British-led war against Iraq. The policy was adopted in the heat of last year's German general election campaign, at a time when the Social Democrats were widely predicted to lose the contest. Mr Schröder was re-elected as Chancellor last September, largely because of the popularity of his government's outspoken opposition to the war against Iraq. The apparently verbatim account of the meeting between Lt Gen Haboosh and Mr Hoffner was among documents recovered by The Telegraph in the rubble of the Iraqi intelligence headquarters in Baghdad, which was heavily bombed.
During the meeting, Lt Gen Haboosh tells the German agent that Iraq has "big problems" with Britain and the United States. "We have problems with Britain because it occupied Iraq for 60 years and with America because of its aggression for 11 years," he says.
He adds, however, that Iraq has no problems with Germany and suggests that Germany will be rewarded with lucrative contracts if it offers international support to Iraq. "When the American conspiracy is finished, we will make a calculation for each state that helps Iraq in its crisis."
He also urges Mr Hoffner to lobby the German government to raise its diplomatic mission in Baghdad to full ambassadorial level. Mr Hoffner says that it would be a decision for the German foreign ministry, but Germany's diplomatic presence in the Iraqi capital made it easier for him to enter Iraq because he was able to use diplomatic cover.
Last night, a spokesman for the German government said it was "well known" that it had been offered lucrative contracts by Baghdad providing it maintained an anti-Iraq war stance. "Iraq made these kinds of promises before the war and praised Germany for its position," he said............
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pan6467 and I agree that one of the most grievous shortcomings of the present U.S. administration, is it's lack of action in regard to the greatest threat to our national security; the vunerability of our paper fiat currency to
a fundamentally driven decline in it's purchasing power, with only the speed of the decline in doubt. Our government indicates that it has no plan to deal with unsustainable trade and budget deficits, aggravated by politically driven and, from the standpoint of new financial demands on the U.S. treasury created by Bush's "war on terror", unjustifiable, signifigant tax cuts, primarily for the wealthiest tax payers. Only lip service and posturing is paid to advocacy for solutions to profligate use and dependence on foreign crude oil.
Bush has proposed less than $1 billion in federal support for his folly that is supposed to relieve our dependence on motor fuels; "hydrogen fuel cells", during a time when oil has doubled in price on his watch, and caused the annual trade deficit to expand by more than $125 billion on the increase in the cost of crude oil alone!
It is not unreasonable to regard the U.S. to be a candidate for a currency collapse similar to the recent experience in Argentina. pan6467 makes the point that this is not a time for the U.S., a massive debtor nation that is trading it's infrastructure to countries like China for an unsustainable consumption binge, spending more on oversized homes with granite kitchen countertops, than was malinvested on still unlit fiber optice networks and still unused telecom and internet infrastructure, just a few years ago, to piss off the rest of the world with it's "in your face" attitude.
An announcement tomorrow by OPEC or Russia that oil purchase must be paid for in Euros instead of dollars would suddenly reduce the ability of the U.S. to continue to purchase both guns and butter.