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Old 06-30-2005, 05:25 AM   #126 (permalink)
shakran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moosenose
So the "Cold War" ended before the 1980's?
Um, no. . . where'd you get that from? The cold war was at its peak in the 80's. My example was in the 80's. You used something from the 60's and 70's to refute it. Didn't make sense.





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So you're saying that they actually have to have the gun in their hand and pointed at us for them to be justifiably killed? I respectfully disagree.
Yes, absolutely. The "gee he MIGHT be dangerous so let's off him" approach is not only immoral, it's stupid.

You MIGHT be dangerous to me. You have the capability of killing me IF you figure out where I live and IF you get a gun and IF you're a good enough shot and IF you decide you want me dead. IF all those if's come together, you could conceivably kill me. By your logic, I now need to hunt you down and kill you first.




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Sometimes, it's hard to find one guy who has the entire planet to hide on, ESPECIALLY when your media releases information on how we track him. You're kidding yourself if you think Bush doesn't want OBL dead.
You're kidding yourself if you think he does, after he says he's not concerned about him. You're kidding yourself if you think he does after he takes the troops looking for them and sticks them in Iraq.


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Ah. I see. Strange then that Texas went for Bush both times he ran for President, and Bush got re-elected in '04... I mean, if he had destroyed everything you say he's destroyed, why do we keep voting him back into office?
That's a great question and one that I can't figure out. But let's look at history. We kept voting Reagan back in office even though he drove up the worst (at the time - Bush Jr. has now eclipsed his record) debt ever, called Russia an evil empire on a national broadcast (by your logic, Russia should have destroyed us for that), and was actively involved in Iran-Contra. And you earlier claimed that Sen. Byrd was horrible because of his "n-word" comments -- - why do we keep electing HIM? You're not even being consistant with your inconsistancies here





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he's not anymore, because he's sitting in jail, and not in one of his palaces. If he were still in power, he'd still be paying them. now he can't. That's a GOOD thing, and came DIRECTLY from invading Iraq.
And with him toppled, Iraq is now free and open for all sorts of other terrorists to set up camp there, and work against the US. That's a BAD thing and came DIRECTLY from invading Iraq.



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you make it sound like they have this huge stockpile of suicide bombers that they are holding back. this is not true. In fact, "debriefings" of failed suicide bombers indicate that there is actually a very short timespan between when a potential suicide bomber says "I'll do this" and when they are deployed. this is true for a variety of reasons: First, because the longer they are not used, the better the chance that they will be compromised and killed beforehand, and secondly, because if you give them too much time to think, they'll do exactly that, and you run the risk of them backing out.
You make it sound like they're already out of suicide bombers. Look you don't have to have a stockpile of anything as long as the supply line keeps turning it out. They might not have 50,000 people in a warehouse somewhere waiting to bomb people, but every day they get new volunteers and every day they send volunteers out to bomb people. Whether you have 'em stockpiled or they keep volunteering each day, you still have a big supply.





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how do you figure? they've proven that they are willing to travel across international boundaries to blow themselves up, yes? Some of the suicide bombers that have died in Iraq came from England. How much harder would it have been for them to fly west instead of east? They know that the war is currently in Iraq, so that is where they are going for their "martyrdom" operations. If they were not going to Iraq, where would they be going?
They ARE going to Iraq, so your supposition is irrelevant. And remember, they werent' this active before the invasion. They weren't coming over here every day and blowing something up. Any danger of that has been created by our invading Iraq.




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So you are saying that we should not go after all terrorists. Is this correct?
That's right. Or would you have us invade Ireland to get rid of their terrorists too?

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Actually, some things ARE "black and white". Terrorists are BAD. there are no "grey" terrorists.
Terrorists are BAD, but they're not necessarilly BAD to US. The people setting off car bombs in Ireland couldn't care less about attacking the USA. They're terrorists, but they don't threaten us. We need to concentrate on what actually threatens us, and Saddam was very low on that list compared to other threats.

Look again at OBL - He attacked the WTC twice, the pentagon once, and was going after other targets but his plane crashed. That's pretty solid evidence that he's not only BAD, but he's BAD toward US. He's logically the guy we want to get, not some dink in the desert who can't blink without us knowing about it.


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We can only be so many places at any one time. Both Pakistan and Saudi Arabia's governments ARE helping us. Their official state policy is to combat terrorism.
Their official STATED state policy is to combat terrorism. But it's hard to combat it when you're funding it. You seem to be saying "as long as they SAY they don't like terrorrists, it doesnt' matter what they DO, so we don't need to invade them."

Your arguments seem to be mainly about words. If someone says bad things about us, we kill them. If someone does bad things to us, we let them escape into the desert. Makes no sense whatsoever.


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the people chanting "Death To America" are certainly a very rich recruiting source for terrorists, yes? I mean, if they are running around chanting "Death To America!", it's pretty clear that they ALREADY don't like America, yes?
Lots of people don't like America. Far fewer of those people actually plan on doing anything about it. You do not kill people because they voiced an opinion. And again, OBL has said "death to america" for years, and he's actually acted upon it. You cannot justify going after anyone until you acknowledge that OBL needs to be our primary target, because all of the arguments you are using to go after people, OBL fits, and does so to a greater extreme than any of the people you want to go after. He not only chants death to America, he ACTS on it, and has done so many times.
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