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Originally Posted by moosenose
McCarthyian? Sorry, I didn't "cut my teeth" on McCarthy. There has been a fair amount of stuff released from KGB files after the fall of the Soviet Union documenting the ties between the KGB and the Vietnam anti-war movement.
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So cite your sources. And that still doesn't change the fact that you're using a war begun 20 years befor emy example and ended a decade before my example to refute my example. It doesn't change the fact that you're not making any sense here.
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Thank you for proving my point. Somehow, I don't see the threat of arrest as being something that would bother most suicide bombers. Do you?
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It's difficult to prove your point because it's nearly incomprehensible. You seem to want to kill everyone who doesn't like the USA. That's either a nonsensical wish, or a psychopathic one.
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Moussaui did not participate in the September 11 attacks, did he?
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He tried to.
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Has OBL been convicted in a court of law of anything? Under the law enforcement model, which is what you're actually pushing,
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Where did you get that? You need to read my posts more thoroughly. If they attacked us, kill 'em. But you can't go running around killing people just because they wear turbans and MIGHT someday POSSIBLY be a threat to us.
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OBl is innocent, because he hasn't been proven guilty. You say "the President sees no need to capture the terrorist that started all this". Are you seriously trying to say that Bush does not want to see OBL dead?
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Hey! By jove I think he's got it! Damn right Bush doesn't want OBL dead. If he did, OBL would be dead by now. Have you forgotten his press conference in March of '03? I'll quote it for you to refresh your memory:
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"So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you. . . . I truly am not that concerned about him."
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I don't read that and think "Yep, Bushie's out to kill that dude" do you?
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Seriously, I'm trying to understand where you are coming from, and all I see is a widely disbursed scattergun pattern.
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And I'm trying to do the same with you, and all I see is wild militarism and a desire to kill anyone who doesn't like your country.
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My point is first of all that you are not the arbiter of what a "true" democrat is. And ANY party that would run John Kerry for their Presidential nominee is not just worthy of rejection, it's BEGGING for people to heap scorn upon it.
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This from the party that ran Bush? Sure, he won, but the man can't lead a kid to the crapper. Everything he's EVER touched has been destroyed. He destroyed every business he tried to run, he destroyed the Texas economy when he became governor, he destroyed the US economy, its reputation around the world, and any hope that we'll be secure in the foreseeable future.
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We can't protect ourselves by running around killing people around the world randomly. We CAN protect ourselves by running around the world killing people who are advocating our destruction.
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No, we cannot, because when we kill people for speaking their mind, we make more people angry with us, and the more we get angry with us the less secure we are.
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Really? I suspect that if you were to actually count the numbers of suicide bombers each day, you could run an accurate average daily count without taking off your shoes. Out of a religion that has over a billion members, that's not a lot of people willing to blow themselves up, is it? ESPECIALLY when many of them blow themselves up in exchange for money for their family from people like Saddam...
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How is Saddam paying their families when he's sitting in jail stripped of all his power and money? I won't even bother asking you to cite your sources because your assumptions don't even make sense.
You also seem to have trouble understanding how to interpret the number of suicide bombings per day. You apparently believe that if they have all the suicide bombers they want, they'll send 'em all out on the same day at the same time to blow themselves up simultaneously. That's simply not how it works. Unless you can give me a finite count of suicide bombers, or give me a definite date on which they'll run out of them, then you can't possibly say with any credibility that there aren't many of them.
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So an airplane loaded with aviation fuel isn't a bomb if it's driven into a building? I suggest you read BATFE's definition of what constitutes a "destructive device" again. I suppose that, since they did not blow themselves up, they were actually shot by police?
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A suicide bomber straps bombs to himself and blows himself up. They did not do that. This is silly, it's semantics, and you are incorrect about it anyway, so why continue?
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Which would you prefer? Them killing themselves in Iraq, or them killing themselves in Cleveland? EVERY single suicide bomber you hear of killing themselves in Iraq is one person who is willing to commit a suicide bombing that is now unable to do so in the US.
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The only thing that's worse than your logic is your logic. If they're blowing themselves up in Iraq, they have no intentions of coming over here and blowing themselves up. This is a one shot thing. If they wanted to blow themselves up here, they would. You're acting like it's a good thing that people are blowing themselves up over there. You're acting like this makes us more secure, and that simply isn't the case.
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Because it's not a war on one group of terrorists, it's a war on ALL terrorists.
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And that is a mistake. In the first place, our primary target should be those who have already hurt us. In the second place, finding all the terrorists will be impossible even if it were justified.
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If a terrorist group even CLAIMS that they want to kill Americans, they need to be killed. ALL of them.
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More rambo crap. Life is not a movie, it's not that simple. Bush would have you believe the world is black and white but it is not, and even if it were, it's a lot easier to SAY "we're gonna kill all of them" than it is to actually do it.
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Saddam was financing suicide bombers. Saddam had sheltered other terrorists that had killed Americans. Saddam had terrorist training camps in Iraq. And no, not all of them were in the North, there were many in the South, one of which was overrun by a Marine Battalion just south of Baghdad, with over FIVE HUNDRED foreign fighters killed.
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You can say that about north korea, pakistan, iran, syria, and saudi arabia, among others. Your logic breaks down because we haven't invaded those guys yet. If that were really teh reason we went after iraq, we'd have gone after them as well.
And let's not forget that Saudi Arabia finances the HELL out of terrorists, a lot more than Iraq ever did, yet we insist on calling them our "friends" How do you justify that?
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If the opinion is one that justifies their death, I have no problem with it. Take this scenario for example. Suppose you are in a bad neighborhood late at night. Suppose a young man, dressed disreputably, comes up to you with his hands in his pockets and says "Stand and deliver, your money or your life."
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A totally different scenario from someone saying they don't like us.
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Now it's very possible that he's really just an old Adam Ant fan expressing his right to free speech (and bad makeup), but if you put a bullet through his skull, it's still legally justified. Why? Because his statement posed a clear threat.
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only if you could prove it's a clear threat. A bunch of people thousands of miles away chanting death to america, but who have no ICBMs, no tanks, and no bombers with which to accomplish this wish, does not necessarilly pose a threat to us.