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Originally Posted by abaya
The tone of the discussion between perhaps the two most biblically erudite people on this thread is exactly what has turned me away from the church entirely. I cannot believe that a God of love would want us speaking to each other in this manner, and it saddens me to watch it play out on TFP.
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It is sad that your views on individuals being hypocrites have turned you and many others away from the church. But one must understand that to be a Christain is to be a hypocrite. Only God is good and perfect. We Chirstians are humans who are inspired to be like Jesus and God, but as we are not perfect, we are bound to be hypocrites. Would God want us speaking to each other in that manner? Certainly not. But it is bound to happen due to not being perfect, even if Christian. Also, on deciding who is and who is not Christian, many claim to be Christain yet don't practice the values and beliefs which it entitles. Thus many claim to be Christain who are not in their hearts.
[Prayer]May the Lord have mercy on them and cast the Holy Spirit upon them so that their hearts may be filled with the love and joy of Chirst, and change their ways to show the love of God rather than the hate of Satin. Amen.[/Prayer]
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Originally Posted by zen_tom
I don't believe Christ ever alluded personally to being God - yes it's stated in the gospels, but I'd rather attribute the labels of liar or lunatic to the people (who by the way are unlikely to have actually been the disciples named) who wrote the history for the consumption of the Gentiles.
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Originally Posted by hannukah harry
at the moment, to the best of my knowledge, the only written 'evidence' for jesus (not his real name by the way) having actually lived in the area that is modernday isreal during the first century AD is the new testament. of which none of it was written less than about 30 years after his death, and doubtfully written by anyone that actually knew him, by the people whom the gospels say they were written by. i think there's good reason to think that jesus never existed and is nothing more than a myth.
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That is incorrect. It is quite likely that they were the same desciples who witnessed the acts of which they write about due to the detail of which they are written. Plus there is the fact that some were written in as short as 15 years after Jesus rose from the dead, which makes it more likely that it was written by the desciples who were with Jesus when He did such works. Which brings me to a question that needs to be considered on determining if the writings were truth or myth: Had it not been true at the time it was written, wouldn't the people have disregaurded it rather than embrace it? For example, if someone today in 2005 were to write a historical book which stated that in 1990, a single alien visited Washington DC, destroyed congress, attempted to united the world under one puppet government to turn us into slaves, and was only stopped by the firing of fifty nuclear warheads at his spaceship, or stated another story of spectacular events, would we not throw it out as garbage? Certainly we would! We would think back and say, "I was around in 1990, and I don't recall hearing of anything like that ever happening..." So in the case of Jesus, so many of the witnesses embraced the works that is shows they are the truth and that Jesus actually existed, thus was not a myth.
If anyone has any questions about Chistianity, Jesus Christ the Lord, and God, then I suggest you direct them towards your local Christian or Catholic church. You are likely (but not guaranteed) to get a far better answer from the Priests and those who work for the Church than from anyone here.