Quote:
|
Originally Posted by asaris
RCA Lyra, you seem to be a bit confused. More specifically, you seem to be confusing the claims (1) "It's possible that God exists" (by which I simply mean "There is no logical contradiction involved in God's existence), (2) "For all we know, God might exist" (which is the agnostics claim), and (3) "God exists" (which is, of course, the theist's claim). (1) seems to be something that, in the absence of an argument against it, is simply reasonable to assume, whatever your position on his actual existence. There might well be something weasely about (2), but given (1), I don't see that it involves any unwarranted assumptions, or, indeed, any assumptions at all. The difference, as I've pointed out before, between God and big green dragons, is that, for one, we can explain why we don't see God (or try to explain it, for you skeptics out there). There's no similar chain of reasoning for why we don't see the big green dragon. And, of course, most if not all Christians are going to claim that there is, in fact, evidence of God's existence. There are reports of miracles which God is supposed to have done, people who testify to experience God's activity in their lives, etc. You might not think this is very good evidence, for one reason or another, but it is evidence, and at the very least, better evidence than your friend saying there's a big green dragon in her garage.
|
Well now we can finally have at it.
Asaris, many people claim that there is a God! Most people claim he is something other than your Christian God. Do you pick and choose who you’ll listen to? How do you choose? What makes you think you are correct?
And…many people claim to have been abducted by aliens,(hundreds of thousands in North American alone, some of which are doctors and Lawyers and highly educated people) But they say it happened so it must be true….
And ….Some people claim that they have a personal relationship with their God. Yet no one has seen God.
You dismiss my freind with the green dragon in her garage.... on what basis? You are the one who says god must be there because people "testify to experience God's activity in their lives" (ok there isn't any dragon, will you admit the same about god please!)
Just because people "say so" does not in any way prove that there are any aliens, or that there is a God. Human fallibility and vulnerability are too great. People want to beleive and to find a sense of purpose to the point where they misattribute neurological stimulus and incorrectly claim that it is the moving of the spirit, or a religious experience.
Face it, you are involved in a religion in which you cannot prove God's existence for fear of "testing him". The only way that you can justify your beliefs as a Christian is by faith alone. If you try to tell me that it's not that way I'd be forced to call you a liar. I likely know your bible better than you do.
Face it…You are a person of Faith…. Not a person of logic or science. (Paul said, “I am a fool for Christ”)
As for me, I am simply a person who does not "buy in" to the myth that there is a God who will offer me eternal life just for believing in him (john 3:16) or eternal damnation (and much suffering) for not believing. I just don’t believe your story, I have been lied to by Christians before, many times.
To call ME confused is simply incorrect. I am the one who does not accept that there is any God without seeing physical evidence. I won't make any assumption about there being a God for the same reason I won't make the assumption that there is a Green dragon in the garage. It's just too easy to make it up!
Why would you buy in to such a belief? Why would a just God throw away those who merely need “see” in order to believe?
Did your Christ really show doubting Thomas the scars in his hands and feet? Why didn’t God put Thomas in hell for his unbelief? Christians say I am headed there because I won’t accept their “good news”.
All I ASK FOR IS TO SEE THE SAME SCARS THOMAS SAW!
Imagine if your God would simply "show up" and tell people not to kill each other!
Imagine if your God were to simply “show up” and sort out the mess between the many religions in the world.
Imagine if your God were to show up and simply say " I am GOD and you should appreciate the lives that I have given you in my creation”, and “by the way there is more for you after death, so be good”.
Imagine....
And yet this God of yours remains silent while the world continues on. (27,000 “real” children will die from starvation tonight…and he could fix it, I can't)
The Anglican Church of Canada articles of religion, Canon Number 10 states:
(Of free will) The condition of Man after the fall of Adam is such, that he cannot turn and prepare himself, by his own natural strength and good works, to faith, and calling upon God: Wherefore we have no power to do good works pleasant and acceptable to God, without the grace of God by Christ preventing us, that we may have a good will, and working in us, when we have that good will. (page 702, Common Prayer Canada)
So there you have it. According to Christian religion, even free will has to be given to us by God.
You are a member of a religion that won’t let you see what you are supposed to believe in for fear of death. And if you start to doubt you will go to hell…
I wish you well... you pushed me to say this