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BigBen · 05-19-2005, 09:13 AM

I used to be biased towards females in combat roles, but my own personal experiences have made me change my mind. I have served with some tough (waaaay tougher than me) females, and to say they can't hack it is simply false. I was the one not hacking it in certain situations, and I relied on my team to help me out.

It is true that if there is a problem with mixed gender units, it is a problem with the leadership of that unit! Only the leader can make the change, or allow the status quo continue.

I have a little problem with the whole "Females Only" unit. That doesn't sound fair to me. Integration is the key.

On another (but directly related) topic, how is the U.S. doing with their recruiting efforts for females in these units? Remember, the soldiers serving today used to be civilians, and they made a choice as to what military occupation they persued. In Canada, we have suffered from the very start with recruiting females into non-traditional roles. We have begged, pleaded, and bribed women into theCombat Arms, and the vast majority quit far sooner than their male peers.
Why? Is it cultural? Is it the physical requirements? Is there harassment occuring? We don't know, and are investigating the causes.

If only 3% of female candidates join up for the front line units, and then 50% of them fail in training, and then an additional 45% get out soon after, one quickly finds a lack of female representation on the parade square! We need more women applying (recruiting efforts), more women successfully completing training (training issues solved) and more women staying in (unit issues and efforts).

I want to stress that I fully support women in all career paths, including military ones. My experiences have taught me that they are as capable as any man. The problem is that although they were stronger, smarter, and better overall than me, I am the one still in, and they have moved on to something else. (yet more proof that they are smarter than me)

I have to share a personal story: there was a guy (lets call him Jack, not his real name) that was NOT up to standard. He sucked at almost everything he did, and was always passing the blame on to others. One day, a woman showed up as a replacement for one of the guys who got hurt. Jack smiled to himself, thinking that he would be finally accepted as "one of the boys" now that the new person was here, and obviously different. Jack started to talk down to the new girl (lets call her Jill) and give her a pretty hard time. Jill finally did what any new guy would do, she called Jack on. "Fuck you, let's go" I think were her exact words. Jack realized that he could not back down without looking like a total idiot, and he also realized that Jill was going to kick his ass.
"I'm not going to fight a girl..." he sneered, looking at the rest of us to save him. We didn't say a word.
Jill stood up, and walked over to him, so that she was about an inch away from his face. "You scared of a little girl?" she said. She was foaming at the mouth, she was so mad.
I think that Jack was about to say something regarding Jill's sexual preferences, and she didn't let him. She beat the living shit out of him, and when she was done, she turned on us, "Who's next?"
We calmed her down as best we could, and laughed at Jack until he quit. She was officially part of the team. The way she beat on him, I knew that she would probably win a fair fight against me. Or most of the other guys. She didn't kick balls or scratch or anything. It was fist against face. And boots against face, at the end.

She left our unit about a year later, and got the army to put her through trade school. I think she is an electrician now. Still in, and still tough.

Finally, I have to say: Although it is true that the PT standards are different for males and females, there is no difference in the job requirements. I could care less if she has to do 10 less push-ups than me; she has to walk just as far with the same kit. I think that the physical requirements should be job based anyway.

I have yet seen a battle won by how many push-ups, sit-ups and chin-ups each unit can do...

05-19-2005, 09:13 AM	#27 (permalink)
BigBen Comedian Location: Use the search button	I used to be biased towards females in combat roles, but my own personal experiences have made me change my mind. I have served with some tough (waaaay tougher than me) females, and to say they can't hack it is simply false. I was the one not hacking it in certain situations, and I relied on my team to help me out. It is true that if there is a problem with mixed gender units, it is a problem with the leadership of that unit! Only the leader can make the change, or allow the status quo continue. I have a little problem with the whole "Females Only" unit. That doesn't sound fair to me. Integration is the key. On another (but directly related) topic, how is the U.S. doing with their recruiting efforts for females in these units? Remember, the soldiers serving today used to be civilians, and they made a choice as to what military occupation they persued. In Canada, we have suffered from the very start with recruiting females into non-traditional roles. We have begged, pleaded, and bribed women into theCombat Arms, and the vast majority quit far sooner than their male peers. Why? Is it cultural? Is it the physical requirements? Is there harassment occuring? We don't know, and are investigating the causes. If only 3% of female candidates join up for the front line units, and then 50% of them fail in training, and then an additional 45% get out soon after, one quickly finds a lack of female representation on the parade square! We need more women applying (recruiting efforts), more women successfully completing training (training issues solved) and more women staying in (unit issues and efforts). I want to stress that I fully support women in all career paths, including military ones. My experiences have taught me that they are as capable as any man. The problem is that although they were stronger, smarter, and better overall than me, I am the one still in, and they have moved on to something else. (yet more proof that they are smarter than me) I have to share a personal story: there was a guy (lets call him Jack, not his real name) that was NOT up to standard. He sucked at almost everything he did, and was always passing the blame on to others. One day, a woman showed up as a replacement for one of the guys who got hurt. Jack smiled to himself, thinking that he would be finally accepted as "one of the boys" now that the new person was here, and obviously different. Jack started to talk down to the new girl (lets call her Jill) and give her a pretty hard time. Jill finally did what any new guy would do, she called Jack on. "Fuck you, let's go" I think were her exact words. Jack realized that he could not back down without looking like a total idiot, and he also realized that Jill was going to kick his ass. "I'm not going to fight a girl..." he sneered, looking at the rest of us to save him. We didn't say a word. Jill stood up, and walked over to him, so that she was about an inch away from his face. "You scared of a little girl?" she said. She was foaming at the mouth, she was so mad. I think that Jack was about to say something regarding Jill's sexual preferences, and she didn't let him. She beat the living shit out of him, and when she was done, she turned on us, "Who's next?" We calmed her down as best we could, and laughed at Jack until he quit. She was officially part of the team. The way she beat on him, I knew that she would probably win a fair fight against me. Or most of the other guys. She didn't kick balls or scratch or anything. It was fist against face. And boots against face, at the end. She left our unit about a year later, and got the army to put her through trade school. I think she is an electrician now. Still in, and still tough. Finally, I have to say: Although it is true that the PT standards are different for males and females, there is no difference in the job requirements. I could care less if she has to do 10 less push-ups than me; she has to walk just as far with the same kit. I think that the physical requirements should be job based anyway. I have yet seen a battle won by how many push-ups, sit-ups and chin-ups each unit can do... __________________ 3.141592654 Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.