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Originally Posted by Janey
I don't want to belabour the point, but I think that you are incorrect in your definitions.
there are basically two:
1) Those who believe or disbelieve because of faith.
2) those who believe or disbelieve because of proof (which by the way, contains all four of your definitions)
and again I'll re-iterate: I am not dismissing any atheist. they believe what they do. Intellectual position notwithstanding, they are not accepting any proof that God doesn't exist. They are basing their position on faith. Just as the most august Roman Catholic Church, or the Eastern Orthodox Church does, or Islam, or Judaism base there doctrines on faith.
furthermore, this act of faith is not irrational. It is quite rational from the perspective of their paradigm. Faith does not require proof. It just requires belief, thus it is sustainable, and inpugnable.
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Again I feel that I must defend my position from my own perspective. Atheism is not an entrenched position of faith. I recently had a person tell me that it takes more faith to be an atheist than a christian...
If a person does not see any evidence that there is a God, or diety, or dieties it does not imply that they have taken a position of "faith that there is no God"
It simply means that they cannot see God, "Therefore she does not appear to be there." After rereading all of your posts I get a sense that you feel it necessary to define atheism from a perspective of faith. Atheism by accepted definition is an non-theistic perspective on the world. That is to say that my world view does not currently have God in it.
Again... I would like there to be a God... I just can't see her yet. She doesn't speak to me, she seems not to exist. No tangible evidence, not even voices in my head, thoughts or dreams. No "presence of God" experiences exist for me!
If I were to take a position against God in light of the (possible) evidence listed above, it would take a form faith that says the experience can be exhaustively explained through science. EVEN SO... if I were to doubt a possible "presence of God" experience and look for an alternate and plausible scientific answer, atheism is not a religion! It is faith that calculable science inevitably answers the questions that arise. The same way that new and exciting revelations in molecular DNA analysis further prove evolution as the means of our actual creation. The hand of God isn't even necessary for us to be here!
One day, when God pokes her nose through the clouds (or whatever God might choose to do) and I see her with my senses, and touch her face I will beleive that she is there. Even so she will have to prove her character to me! Is she Omnipotent? Is she omniscient? Does she love us? Does she have an afterlife prepared for us? Are we eternal beings with a soul? Does she care that I hurt, laugh, cry etc.
To say that atheism is an entrenched position of faith is simply silly and defies logic. A-theism = Non-theism
Athiests still wonder if there is a god out there... there just isn't any proof yet. Just ask us, we'll tell you!
Shades of gray... shades of gray!
By the way.. the last post you made, right before this post one is truly great... this post is only clarification and is an attempt to further define how I see things. I love the way you express yourself!