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Originally Posted by astrahl
I am saying that when a pregnancy occurs and the woman doesn't want it, it was implied earlier that she should go through with the pregnancy as a lesson about dealing with the consequences her actions. So the guy shells out some money, BIG-FRICKEN-DEAL! The WOMAN is the one who goes through nine months of having her body hijacked and then the <i>lovely</i> process of birth.
Those biological changes are permanent and are not minor. So the guy "learns his lesson" by paying some child support?!? I hardly call that a fair reckoning for the men who contribute to the problem.
I think you fail to take the biological toll of pregnancy into account when you are discussing you opinion on abortion and judgement. To be forced to carry a pregnancy to term is having somebody force their will on your body and THAT is the same imposition as rape.
My buttons get pushed when people think it is okay to punish a woman for her mistake by forcing her body into servitude while the man involved gets off (no pun intended) without any REAL consequences. Even if you could devise a punishment for the men involved, it wouldn't make the forced pregnancy any less vile and disgusting.
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You never really deal with the inequality present. You just repeatedly state what a woman goes through. If women can have a dodge, so should men, they are nearly as effected as women. If you don't think child support is a big deal, go ahead and take 33% of your gross paycheck, and just send it away for the next 18 years. That is a REAL concequence.
Me personally, I would gladly trade 9 months of a rapidly growing tumor and one or two days of being drugged out of my mind/in pain for 33% more earnings.
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And, if you don't mind me saying, you don't appear to be very sharp in deducing my circumstances if that is why you think I have this opinion. I don't have a hatred for men, I've never experienced a so-called "dead-beat;" I think men are wonderful. That is why I married one.
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I don't think this was directed at me, but I will say that judging by the above posts you don't have much respect for fatherhood, or a man's contribution to the creation of a child.
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Reproductive rights are very important to me because I am a woman, but I am first a human being. A human being with a brain and individual rights and it is arrogant of you to think that you should have any say about what I do to and with my body, ever. If I want to cut off my finger, you don't have a say; if I want to shave my head and drink abscinth, you don't have a say; if I want to abort a pregnancy, you don't have a say. You are welcome to an opinion, but that is where your rights stop. You cannot ethically impose a law that violates a person's individual rights to their own body.
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If what you want to do to your body is against society's best intrests a law can certainly be passed that limits that action.
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You may want to go on and on about the sanctity of life and spout all the half-truths and propaganda the pro-birth yahoos push, but in considering this issue please understand that I have taken into account, not only my own personal opinion, but also the biology and ethics of abortion. I may be wrong. As a scientist I must admit to the possibility. And perhaps when the karma comes back to me, I may see that I WAS wrong. But until then, I would rather err on the side of the people already walking the planet than on the side of a "possible/potential, may-perhaps person."
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And you can go on spouting the euphamisms, lies, and propaganda of the pro-death nuts, but all it's doing is skirting the issue, and not addressing it.