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Nisses · 04-26-2005, 01:27 AM

As far as the 'use a condom', 'use birthcontrol' arguments go... Drop those, wouldn't ya? The point of this thread is not to prevent it, but what to do when it *has* happened.
And besides, the controls are never 100% effective, so even if you 'do the right thing' you can still have it happen.
I would agree with Maleficent in saying if you really, really don't want to have children, get yourself fixed, whether you're male or female. But that's not the point here, we're talking about afterwards.

As far as the abortion goes, you only have 2 stances here it seems. You're either for equality or you're against. Not saying in general, but in this scenario specific.

To me it doesn't seem worth it to try to talk analog or Strange Famous out of their ideas. They're different stances on the subject and not really reconcileable (if that's even a word).

So I would agree with Analog in saying that equality is a noble goal which we should try to achieve.

Now...
4 scenarios:
Father wants the child, mother wants the child --> no problem
Father doesn't want the child, mother doesn't want the child --> no problem

Father wants the child, mother doesn't want the child... In this case, you're forcing the mother to go through a painful process and 9 months of discomfort, you're controlling her body physically. Something that doesn't sit well with the controlled party, in this case women.

Mother wants to keep the child, father doesn't... In this case, the legal system forces the father to pay for the support of the child for 2 decades. Which may not be physical control, but at the very least mental control of a person. So in this case, you're controlling the man. Which, again, doesn't sit well with the controlled party...

So you've got 2 possible problem-situations.

Want a hard-ball opinion? With all the studies going around that show the influence of both parents in the raising of a child... Abortion unless both parties agree to raise the child (either together or separately).

Sure it may sound harsh. But in this case, it's not the father's rights, or the mother's rights that should come first.

It's the child's right to a good, decent and lasting upbringing. If you can't guarantee that, why go with the laissez-faire attitude and see what the result will become...

Stop and abort, do not pass Go, do not collect your alimony, and do not control anybody. Just pass by City Hall, the 2 of you, and put down in writing that both of you agree to raise the kid, problem solved.

Neither of you bothered to do so? Then either raise the kid on your own, or don't go through with the pregnancy.

my 2 cents.

PS, Kinky Kiwi: as far as the actual process of childbirth, there I agree with you, it's her body, it's her pain, the man shouldn't really have a say in that. The woman knows her pain-limits and should be able to use a painrelief if she wants to.

04-26-2005, 01:27 AM	#85 (permalink)
Nisses Shade Location: Belgium	As far as the 'use a condom', 'use birthcontrol' arguments go... Drop those, wouldn't ya? The point of this thread is not to prevent it, but what to do when it has happened. And besides, the controls are never 100% effective, so even if you 'do the right thing' you can still have it happen. I would agree with Maleficent in saying if you really, really don't want to have children, get yourself fixed, whether you're male or female. But that's not the point here, we're talking about afterwards. As far as the abortion goes, you only have 2 stances here it seems. You're either for equality or you're against. Not saying in general, but in this scenario specific. To me it doesn't seem worth it to try to talk analog or Strange Famous out of their ideas. They're different stances on the subject and not really reconcileable (if that's even a word). So I would agree with Analog in saying that equality is a noble goal which we should try to achieve. Now... 4 scenarios: Father wants the child, mother wants the child --> no problem Father doesn't want the child, mother doesn't want the child --> no problem Father wants the child, mother doesn't want the child... In this case, you're forcing the mother to go through a painful process and 9 months of discomfort, you're controlling her body physically. Something that doesn't sit well with the controlled party, in this case women. Mother wants to keep the child, father doesn't... In this case, the legal system forces the father to pay for the support of the child for 2 decades. Which may not be physical control, but at the very least mental control of a person. So in this case, you're controlling the man. Which, again, doesn't sit well with the controlled party... So you've got 2 possible problem-situations. Want a hard-ball opinion? With all the studies going around that show the influence of both parents in the raising of a child... Abortion unless both parties agree to raise the child (either together or separately). Sure it may sound harsh. But in this case, it's not the father's rights, or the mother's rights that should come first. It's the child's right to a good, decent and lasting upbringing. If you can't guarantee that, why go with the laissez-faire attitude and see what the result will become... Stop and abort, do not pass Go, do not collect your alimony, and do not control anybody. Just pass by City Hall, the 2 of you, and put down in writing that both of you agree to raise the kid, problem solved. Neither of you bothered to do so? Then either raise the kid on your own, or don't go through with the pregnancy. my 2 cents. PS, Kinky Kiwi: as far as the actual process of childbirth, there I agree with you, it's her body, it's her pain, the man shouldn't really have a say in that. The woman knows her pain-limits and should be able to use a painrelief if she wants to. __________________ Moderation should be moderately moderated.