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hypnotic4502 · 04-21-2005, 09:26 AM

to be honest im not sure about Socrates.

many people believe Luke fits in the time frame of 170-180 because the book of Luke wasnt written till nearly 2 hundred years after the supposed event of Jesus's departure.the proof is offered that Theophilus to whom Luke addressed as the bishop of Antioch from 169-177 A.D.

Since Josephus was born in the year 37 CE,it could not have have been an eye-witness account of Jesus,who supposedly was crucified in 30 CE.

In the case of Josephus,whose Antiquities of the Jews was written in 93 CE, about the same time as the gospels,we find him saying some things quite impossible for a good Pharisee to have said:

About this time, there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. When Pilate, upon hearing him accused by men of the highest standing amongst us, had condemned him to be crucified, those who had in the first place come to love him did not give up their affection for him. On the third day he appeared to them restored to life, for the prophets of God had prophesied these and countless other marvelous things about him. And the tribe of the Christians,so called after him,has still to this day not disappeared.

no loyal Pharisee would say Jesus had been the Messiah.that Josephus could report that Jesus had been restored to life "on the third day" and not be convinced by this astonishing bit of information is beyond belief.worse is the fact that the story of Jesus is intrusive in Josephus' narrative and can be seen to be an interpolation even in an English translation of the Greek text. Right after the wondrous passage quoted above,Josephus goes on to say, "About the same time also another sad calamity put the Jews into disorder..." Josephus had previously been talking about awful things Pilate had done to the Jews in general,and one can easily understand why an interpolator would have chosen this particular spot.his not changing the wording of the bordering text left a "literary seam".

there was blatant forgery in the gospel of mark and john something that occured pretty often in the early church

John 7:53 to John 8:11 describes the story of Jesus and the adulteress. It appears to be a forgery that was not part of the Book of John as it was originally written, but was added later by an unknown person:
The New International Version of the Bible states:

"The earliest and most reliable manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53 - 8:11."

The "Interpreter's One Volume Commentary on the Bible" states:

"7:53-8:11: This passage is omitted or set off in modern editions of the gospel since it does not appear in the oldest and best manuscripts and is apparently a later interpolation. In some manuscripts it occurs after Luke 21:38."

Eusebius an early church father and "historian" stated :
How it maybe lawful and fitting to use falsehood ad medicine,and for the benefit of those that want to be decieved."

as far as a historical proof of a person that existed close to Jesus's supposed time Julius Ceasar is a prime example
We have words written by Caesar himself and words written by both his friends and his enemies.Artifacts confirm his life and death,as do his successors.Caesar established a style of government–and a calendar–which endured for centuries.

you say the bible depends on historical truths?? lol
the town of Nazareth didnt even exist during the supposed time of Jesus.its not mentioned once in the entire old testament.the book of Joshua in what it claims to be the process of settlement by the tribe of Zebulon in the area records 12 towns and 6 villages yet Nazareth isnt on its list.
the Talmud,although it names 63 Galilean towns knows nothing of Nazareth,neither does any rabbinic literature.
no ancient historian or geographer mentions Nazareth.its first noted in the begginning of the 4th century.

what gets me about the bible is how these supposedly works inspired directly by god led to the selection of just 4 approved gospels and the rejection of others.after 3 centuries of arguing 23 books were accepted by the Church as divenly inspired,while the rest were declared pious frauds.

04-21-2005, 09:26 AM	#89 (permalink)
hypnotic4502 Upright Location: outside of Tulsa,Oklahoma	to be honest im not sure about Socrates. many people believe Luke fits in the time frame of 170-180 because the book of Luke wasnt written till nearly 2 hundred years after the supposed event of Jesus's departure.the proof is offered that Theophilus to whom Luke addressed as the bishop of Antioch from 169-177 A.D. Since Josephus was born in the year 37 CE,it could not have have been an eye-witness account of Jesus,who supposedly was crucified in 30 CE. In the case of Josephus,whose Antiquities of the Jews was written in 93 CE, about the same time as the gospels,we find him saying some things quite impossible for a good Pharisee to have said: About this time, there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. When Pilate, upon hearing him accused by men of the highest standing amongst us, had condemned him to be crucified, those who had in the first place come to love him did not give up their affection for him. On the third day he appeared to them restored to life, for the prophets of God had prophesied these and countless other marvelous things about him. And the tribe of the Christians,so called after him,has still to this day not disappeared. no loyal Pharisee would say Jesus had been the Messiah.that Josephus could report that Jesus had been restored to life "on the third day" and not be convinced by this astonishing bit of information is beyond belief.worse is the fact that the story of Jesus is intrusive in Josephus' narrative and can be seen to be an interpolation even in an English translation of the Greek text. Right after the wondrous passage quoted above,Josephus goes on to say, "About the same time also another sad calamity put the Jews into disorder..." Josephus had previously been talking about awful things Pilate had done to the Jews in general,and one can easily understand why an interpolator would have chosen this particular spot.his not changing the wording of the bordering text left a "literary seam". there was blatant forgery in the gospel of mark and john something that occured pretty often in the early church John 7:53 to John 8:11 describes the story of Jesus and the adulteress. It appears to be a forgery that was not part of the Book of John as it was originally written, but was added later by an unknown person: The New International Version of the Bible states: "The earliest and most reliable manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53 - 8:11." The "Interpreter's One Volume Commentary on the Bible" states: "7:53-8:11: This passage is omitted or set off in modern editions of the gospel since it does not appear in the oldest and best manuscripts and is apparently a later interpolation. In some manuscripts it occurs after Luke 21:38." Eusebius an early church father and "historian" stated : How it maybe lawful and fitting to use falsehood ad medicine,and for the benefit of those that want to be decieved." as far as a historical proof of a person that existed close to Jesus's supposed time Julius Ceasar is a prime example We have words written by Caesar himself and words written by both his friends and his enemies.Artifacts confirm his life and death,as do his successors.Caesar established a style of government–and a calendar–which endured for centuries. you say the bible depends on historical truths?? lol the town of Nazareth didnt even exist during the supposed time of Jesus.its not mentioned once in the entire old testament.the book of Joshua in what it claims to be the process of settlement by the tribe of Zebulon in the area records 12 towns and 6 villages yet Nazareth isnt on its list. the Talmud,although it names 63 Galilean towns knows nothing of Nazareth,neither does any rabbinic literature. no ancient historian or geographer mentions Nazareth.its first noted in the begginning of the 4th century. what gets me about the bible is how these supposedly works inspired directly by god led to the selection of just 4 approved gospels and the rejection of others.after 3 centuries of arguing 23 books were accepted by the Church as divenly inspired,while the rest were declared pious frauds. __________________ Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived. -Isaac Asimov Last edited by hypnotic4502; 04-21-2005 at 10:06 AM..