host

"Walking on the edge", of what ???

There will be no agreement among us who the traitors are or aren't.
Some members may be influenced to further examine if their own opinions are well reasoned, and may become more curious and then, better informed.
Becoming better informed could lead to increased admiration for some of the people named in the thread titles, and decreased admiration for others.
Voters with more balanced views could move the U.S. away from "the edge".

This is not going to go away, IMO. Read through the links to past TFP posts with
Jane Fonda references..........

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...nda#post438171
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...nda#post809122
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...nda#post925861
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...nda#post961026
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...nda#post974202
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...2&postcount=14
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...nda#post976701
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...da#post1005957
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...da#post1009268
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...da#post1016048
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...da#post1023603
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...da#post1026496
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...da#post1230018
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...da#post1368903
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...da#post1375652
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...da#post1376544
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...da#post1402905
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...da#post1424373
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...da#post1424913
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...da#post1425025
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...da#post1425063

You may not be favorably disposed towards this thread and it's subject matter, but the controversy as to whether each of the individuals named in the thread title (add Ramsey Clark to the list, since he was susequently criticized in a post or two....) is a patriot or a traitor, a great American president or a war criminal, is the stuff that "politics" has always been about.

"Moderate" it away, and what are you left with ?

From my point of you, there is very little in American politics that can be distilled to either black or white, or good or bad. I do have to endure posts like the one linked here:
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...5&postcount=13

I responded to the post linked above, with the following two posts, hoping
to add some "gray" to the "black or white".
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...1&postcount=17
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...2&postcount=20

As you can see, my posts and the information that they contained, had no
effect on this poster's opinion, for just two days ago, this was posted:
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...2&postcount=64

I read the argument in the media and in posts here, that the U.S., even in the absence of WMD, was justified in invading Iraq, because Saddam was
a "brutal dictator", and "he gassed his own people".

I counter this "black or white", with more gray:
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...3&postcount=15

The response is that the U.S. aided Saddam in the 80's because he was fighting against our enemy, Iran......

I responded to this by posting references that show that the former president who the U.S. recently afforded a state funeral that shut the business of the capital down for a week and monopolized most of the media for the same period, was found by a special prosecutor to have concealed from his investigation that he (the president) was fully aware that his administration was selling weapons to Iran while it was aiding Saddam, and negotiating with terrorists against the president's proclaimed public policy statements.

The special prosecutor also made similar determinations about the vice president, who then succeeded that president when he left office.
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...9&postcount=31

tecoyah, do not allow the followups to what I believe is a very relevant, timely, and necessary thread subject to persuade you that this is not a political subject. Much money and effort was spent in last years election to isoil Kerry by linking him to "Hanoi Jane" and by equating his activist protest against the war, with "treason". It was a largely successful effort.

pan6467, I disagree with you, because ignoring this will not make it go away.
An argument can be made that it needs to be talked to death before that can or will happen. The talk show hosts and the architects of presidential campaigns and their spin machines still heavily use this subject to their advantage.

Every day, more info comes out to further erode what the American people were told were the justifications for invading another country. We seem now
to be left with arguments that the "brutal dicatator", who our government sponsored, because he fought against our mutual enemy, while we also were
secretly selling arms to that enemy, still deserved to be attacked and deposed, even though he only fooled our government into believing that he
possessed massive, menancing stockpiles of WMD, or the means to "whip them up" in the wink of an eye>

Can't you see that until we as a nation see the "gray" that blurs the "black or white" of these life and death issues, to the point that we stop shutting our capital and media down for a massive state funeral to "honor" a great,
(but disingenuous and double dealing) past president, and possible examine whether our government invaded Iraq at the expense of it's own long and oft stated repudiation of wars of aggression, that this nation will not move on.
This is a problem, no less than banning photos of flag draped coffins of our
military casualties is a problem.

It gets old, Lebell, but what can you offer that is superior to this, to possibly fix it. Influencing people to be more curious and to seek out the "gray" in the issues is important enough to put up with messy and sometimes emotional exchanges. To me, religious services "get old", in their repitition. It seems that the reason for this is so everyone, from the dullest to the brightest, might have a chance to understand the message and it's lessons.

My hope is that in the next national election, more people will be more curious about who the statesmen and who the criminals are, who the patriots and who the traitors are. If we don't continue to talk about it on a political thread, or at all, how can that happen ?