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sexymama · 04-18-2005, 05:04 PM

Eula, imho you are right in so many ways. I just think the message from you and Lebell both are getting mixed up in this extreme black and white. Truth is, you can't make anyone do anything. For example, I can't make my kids sleep. However, I can enforce a bedtime and it can be done respectfully. Don't you have to arrive to work on time? Don't you want out of work on time? The reason situations like that work is because of mutual respect.

Natural consequences, in this case being overtired in the morning but still being required to go to school, helps a child learn and set her/his own boundaries. However, there are times when I don't want nature to teach my child. I don't want her to learn that playing in the street is dangerous by getting hit by a car; nor do I want him to learn that brushing your teeth is necessary by getting rotten teeth. Some rules and boundaries are necessary. That doesn't mean there is not respect -- on the contrary, I love and respect my children enough to give them boundaries. (I see you say that somewhat above -- again, a "gray" area.)

It is interesting to me that you equate rules with complexity and punishment. I think that rules don't mean either of those things. They simply mean that an environment is created in which all persons involved feel important, valued, and respected. For example, my children must do chores. Why? Because they are a valued part of this family who need to participate in keeping the household running. Another example, if you are feeling moody, angry, etc., go on time out. I model putting myself on time out and yes, my children have been known to put themselves on time out. Time out is not a punishment, it is time to cool down and regroup (such as in a basketball game).

Finally, giving children boundaries is not disrespecting them. Children are given parents because they need guidance! Boundaries are the guides (we have them in society as well, they are called laws.) If children could make it in the world on their own, they wouldn't be given parents. Doing a good job parenting is difficult work. It takes thought, respect and love. Please don't undermine or underestimate the value of a good parent.

04-18-2005, 05:04 PM	#15 (permalink)
sexymama My own person -- his by choice Location: Lebell's arms	Eula, imho you are right in so many ways. I just think the message from you and Lebell both are getting mixed up in this extreme black and white. Truth is, you can't make anyone do anything. For example, I can't make my kids sleep. However, I can enforce a bedtime and it can be done respectfully. Don't you have to arrive to work on time? Don't you want out of work on time? The reason situations like that work is because of mutual respect. Natural consequences, in this case being overtired in the morning but still being required to go to school, helps a child learn and set her/his own boundaries. However, there are times when I don't want nature to teach my child. I don't want her to learn that playing in the street is dangerous by getting hit by a car; nor do I want him to learn that brushing your teeth is necessary by getting rotten teeth. Some rules and boundaries are necessary. That doesn't mean there is not respect -- on the contrary, I love and respect my children enough to give them boundaries. (I see you say that somewhat above -- again, a "gray" area.) It is interesting to me that you equate rules with complexity and punishment. I think that rules don't mean either of those things. They simply mean that an environment is created in which all persons involved feel important, valued, and respected. For example, my children must do chores. Why? Because they are a valued part of this family who need to participate in keeping the household running. Another example, if you are feeling moody, angry, etc., go on time out. I model putting myself on time out and yes, my children have been known to put themselves on time out. Time out is not a punishment, it is time to cool down and regroup (such as in a basketball game). Finally, giving children boundaries is not disrespecting them. Children are given parents because they need guidance! Boundaries are the guides (we have them in society as well, they are called laws.) If children could make it in the world on their own, they wouldn't be given parents. Doing a good job parenting is difficult work. It takes thought, respect and love. Please don't undermine or underestimate the value of a good parent. __________________ If you can go deeply into lovemaking, the ego disappears. That is the beauty of lovemaking, that it is another source of a glimpse of god It's not about being perfect; it's about developing some skill at managing imperfection.