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Old 04-15-2005, 06:55 PM   #32 (permalink)
madcow
Crazy
 
Location: The state of denial
pan6467 I didn't want to get into this, but I am finding it difficult to stay silent.

We agree, at least, in what the problem is. The majority of individuals and the government are spending like there is no tomorrow and the US culture only breeds this behaviour. However that is mostly where the similarities between our opinions end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pan6467
the GOP leadership realize:

- that the poorer the people the more religious they become, this benefits their religious right benefactors so there's benefits
- the rich short term profit as they can buy up land at Sheriff's auctions dirt cheap
- they can blame all this on masses but allow individuals to believe it was everyone else
- if they keep cutting taxes on the rich and cutting social programs, the masses become indentured making almost slave wages, the short term is great for the rich
I can kinda see your points here but this is not the root of the problem. Yes, people do feel like it is everybody else that is ruining everything and they are just doing their best and it is not their fault when they are in fact contributing to the problem. Yes, the rich are getting tax cuts, but so is everyone else. Just because the rich have more does not mean they should be taxed proportionally more than anyone else. These are the people that are investing in companies, creating jobs, innovating new ideas and driving the economy. You think all their money is just sitting around in a big money bin like Scrooge McDuck? Please....

Quote:
Originally Posted by pan6467
the Dem. leadership realizes:

- wages must be increased and the threat of inflation is bullshit because CEO's and upper management make far more than they ever have in the past
- social programs and education are needed to develop a more intelligent work base that can again be the best and most innovative
- tax bases can be increased by tariffs, finding ways to keep factories here and regulating imports and small business loans to keep business growth up.
- universal healthcare, so that the medical debt (which is extremely high and probably our worst enemy) can be eliminated. The scare tactics that it would decrease the effectiveness of care, that it would take away the pharmaceuticals incentives to develop drugs and all the other GOP propaganda would be far outweighed by the fact that companies could free up that benefit monies to pay workers more, workers would be able to spend/ save/ lower debt more because they wouldn't have outrageous insurance, medical and prescription bills to worry about.
I don't agree with ANY of this.
1. What on earth does a tiny percentage of the population's wages have to do with the threat of inflation.
2. Yes people need to educate themselves to be productive in society but people need to have personal responsibility. They have to realize that they need to get their priorities straight and go educate themselves instead of buying those 20 inch rims and the newest cell phone. Social programs are not going to teach them this. They are going to teach them they don't have to fend for themselves and that they can rely on the rest of society to drag them along.
3. No no no NO. Outsourcing jobs and cheap imports forces the United States to retool it's work force to actually be valuable and productive in the world. If we subsidize these people we take money from the industries that are actually productive and give it to the people who are not. This brings the whole country down.
4. Again, personal responsibility. 2/3 of the population is overweight and a lot of them are happy that way. If people took responsibility for their own well being instead of relying on the "system" to take care of them they would eat right, exercise and try to keep themselves as healthy as possible. If this happened the cost of health care would be much much lower and they could save time and money for themselves. Reliance on a system only makes it acceptible for people to be unhealthy and makes things worse. I know there are people who do actually get sick for circumstances out of their control and everyone should have coverage, but that is not the country we live in today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pan6467
Then there is the growing in support solution to just erase all debt as a country and start over, however beautiful that may sound there would be problems (such as other countries forgiving our debt

Finally, there is the NEW WORLD ORDER conspiracists viewpoint and while their ends are whacky, this may very well be the best solution for the world to keep it out of depression and war.

- This solution would be for everyone to start over ALL DEBT forgiven and 1 world currency, 1 world minimum wage and 1 world trade. While countries would remain sovereign as to their laws and customs the economics would be based on every country producing and consuming.
Honestly, do you think this is EVER going to happen? Yeah it might straighten things out, but humans are too bitter, selfish and unforgiving for people to even fathom this scenario.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pan6467
I think no matter how we look at it the end of society as we know it today is and has to come to a fast ending sooner rather than later. The debts are too high and payment is coming due.
Again, we agree on this at least. But people need to get their collective heads out of their collective asses and realize they need to take care of themselves instead of whining and demanding the rest of us take care of them.

On a side note, I realize I probably just infuriated more than half of TFP but I'm sick of hearing the argument that everyone needs to take care of everyone else. It's your life, take responsiblity. I'm 22 and have my own place, my own car and my own job. I payed for my own education from merit scholarships and work. I have no debt and I take care of my body with exercise and proper diet. I don't expect anyone to give me anything I haven't earned, neither should anyone else.

I can't believe I'm actually gonna submit this.
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Last edited by madcow; 04-15-2005 at 06:59 PM..
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