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Originally Posted by Manx
Color me not suprised that Lebell congratulated you on this post. Seeing as how this thread was created SPECIFICALLY at lebell's request to list the "sins" of Columbus.
And you seek balance. This thread is balance. Lebell and many others prefer not to hear this information - it is blocked from public discourse. You want the good with the bad? Well, in this case it's the other way around: you must have the bad with the good, and you've already had unending good. The point was made in the other thread, by lebell, that he disapproves of the American Indian Movement protesting celebrations of Columbus. Why would he disapprove if not to block this information, the balance you claim to seek?
As will said: this thread is about the attrocities of Columbus, created at the specific request for a thread about the attrocities of Columbus. The title of the thread is not "Christopher Columbus, Hero and Murderer". It doesn't need to be because it is a response to someone who claims that this Columbus should only be celebrated.
This thread is not hate and anger - this thread is the missing piece of history.
And instead of welcoming the information in this thread as the balance that is necessary, as you claim, you criticize it for not echoing the oft repeated claim of heroism.
To that I say: you do yourself a disservice.
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Balance is both sides Manx, just as we sgree on some issues we disagree on some. Doesn't mean I look only at one side of you and curse you or believe you to be wonderful. YOU are a man just as I and we make mistakes and I am sure we both have done things we are not proud of and hurt others.
Such is the case with Columbus. To simply say this man was evil and yet not find anything at all in which to believe he had some good in him is as hypocritical and nonsensical as those who make the same claims about Clinton and Bush.
You didn't start this thread balanced. This thread contained an opinion based on some facts. I should be allowed my opinions based on the facts I know. And yes, before I read this I knew what attrocities Columbus had made but I also know at that time, that was where we as a peoples were. I cannot judge a man 500+ yrs later for actions he made not knowing truly how he was educated, what the exterior factors were, what reasonings the man had. I can't and won't judge the man..... good or bad. All I can do is say he was human and I do believe that in his day he did what he believed right. MY OPINION NOT WHITEWASH.
Would I support his actions today? NO
But he isn't in today and I am not responsible nor accountable for the sins of my ancestors, I can only be responsible and held accountable for my sins and hope my children learn from my mistakes and don't repeat them.
What my impression of the start of this thread is, is that you wish to condemn a man and condemn all those who follow after him.
I can't do that. I choose to see his good and bad and pay respect for the good he did.
You seem to have prejudged that those who disagree with your views are whitewashing the past, refuse to see the attrocities and hero worshipping.
You are wrong in this prejudgement of me and you obviously have not truly understood my posts. I see the evil but I choose to build on what positives I can learn from this. I cannot focus on the negatives and demand negativity and expect positive results from it.
That is what I see your argument as being, you want a man condemned because 500+ years later our morality dictates what he did as evil. His morality and teachings may have said it was ok.
Lets say you MANX do something famous makes you forever known in history. Then 500 years from now people start publishing how you looked at porn, ate meat, whatever and to them that is most vile.
Do you believe your accomplishments should be totally forgotten because you did something at the time that was legal but in the future it makes you a man to be reviled?
Do you believe that your progeny should pay retribution and forsake everything good you did because the morality in that future dictates you were evil (even though at the time you believed it was ok)?
I cannot judge a man in the past and discount his greatness, it doesn't mean I discount the evil (that my morality sees). It just means, I see him as a human being and I cannot judge him and his actions that is between God and him. But I can honor his great accomplishments, that helped mankind move forward.