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Originally Posted by Pacifier
Yep, thats exactly the problem, and with this statement:
you're a perfect example.
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At least I make no illusions that I'm not what everybody else is deep down.
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Communism would work if everyone would give everything he can so that erveryone has everything he needs. But, like you're said, some people are greedy and will expoit such a system. Thats why they only work in smaller scales.
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There is a TON of things that work in small scales. That's why they tend not to work because they are small scale ideas and are faulty when they don't take into account the other variables. Capitalism works in a small scale. It's when you factor in the latent human greed and the inborn tendency to better one's position is when it fails.
BTW...I never said don't provide people with what they need. Just don't limit what other people can get based upon THEIR abilities which is what communism does.
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but the "humans are bad" fact will also bring capitalism down. Pro Capitalists always argue that if the industry is wealthy is will also benefit the "normal" people. But thats BS, cooperations are also "not basically good", they will do everything possible to maximise their profit. And that will result in the exploitation of the "working class".
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And a communist set up is no different. Except instead of a bunch of little entities you can chose from those evil corporations all get smashed up into ONE entity the all powerful government that not only controls your finances,they control your health care,they control your security,they control your housing,they control your productivity. They OWN you. If you aren't happy with your place of employment...you leave. Not happy with your country? Where are you going to go if every country is like that? No where! So you either become a cog and feed the people who will inevitablely exploit the system or you exploit the system yourself. Personally if I get say 50% of what the person that works 40 hours gets then I'm not going to bust my butt to do it. I don't like to work. I like to read. So if you are going to feed,clothe, and house me and all I have to do is get up in the morning turn on my state provided TV, in my state provided apartment, eat my state provided breakfast,read the books paid for by my state provided money,when I get bored I can go to my state provided gym or state provided park,to hang out with all the other people who don't like to work. How does that make me bad? I'm simply doing what the system encourages. Do what you like to do and since there is pretty much nothing to drive me to work since all my basic needs are taken care of why not do just what I want to do?
And how is accepting the bare minimum being greedy?
I'm just taking what would be given to me. I'm helping the society by keeping the hell out of everyone's way and keeping the standards low so nobody will want to keep accumulating such evil things like material wealth.
They'll say...Hey look there's old man Mike! He's ok with the bare minimum and he's happy! You should take a lesson from him and stop trying to get more than your fellow citizens. Just make do with what you get and be happy. Everybody is the same and just because you make Stephen Hawking look like a blithering idiot doesn't mean you deserve magnitudes more than Jimmy Bobbysocks who didn't bother learning anything more than how to change spark plugs.
Listen I'd love a perfect world where people could do what they want get what they need and for there still to be innovation on the level of what we have now. But the reality of the situation is without competition there is NO innovation. Societies that were comfortable with their situation stagnated and they were passed up. Look at the aboriginal societies that have no concept of money and little to no concept of ownership. Most didn't really advance beyond very rudimentary technologies as all you realy NEED in life is food,shelter,and clothing. And most people I know don't really like the concept of just "surviving".