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Originally Posted by willravel
Yikes. You, as a former teacher, think it's okay for a teacher to pull a chair from under a student in an act of anger and agression? As a teacher myself, I KNOW that with teaching kids must come saint-like patience. I never, in 5 years of teaching music and sports, yelled or was aggressive with students. I did my fair share of punishing bad behavior (anything from calling parents in front of the child to the child being left out of the fun activities), but never once did I punish out of anger. The thought of verbally or physically atacking a student is unthinkable, as it should be for any figure of authority. Kids misbehave. Kids test limits and try to provoke teachers. That's normal. If you lower yourself to their level, all you end up teaching them is that acting like a child is okay.
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Yikes yourself. Get over yourself. Your profile says are 21 years old, so I am curious about the teaching experience you mentioned, and your experience as a psychologist, as you call yourself. Though you might be more accomplished than you appear, it seems to me that your age alone precludes much experience that lends credence to your arguments. How old were these kids you taught for 5 years? Were they young adults? Do you have children of your own that age (perhaps by marriage)? Have you any experience teaching students who act like this? And please tell me who advocated (or even mentioned) "punish(ing) out of anger" or "verbally or physically attacking a student" "in an act of violence and aggression"? Can we simply assume from this point that neither you nor I advocate those things?
The only word I would change in my original post is the word "pull" when talking about the kid's chair, because you apparently assume that I meant doing it so that the kid would fall, which any knucklehead knows is assault, which is clearly a criminal act. I said in my post I didn't agree with all the methods of the teacher in the video. The yelling, for instance, heightened the tension. The yelling was wrong and counter-productive, and I've seen no one defending it. He won't walk away from this incident unscathed. As for the chair-pulling, the kid in the video was clearly on his feet and moving forward to stand as the teacher took the chair, and he was not pulled backward, and was therefore not in any danger of being hurt. He stood on his own.
Assuming there was no criminal act, I think taking the chair away is a perfectly fine use of authority in the classroom, and it defines the lesson and the point about expected behaviors, decorum, and authority in class. It's also provocative action, but in a way a teacher has the right and duty to be when a teachable moment appears. It was a stand against the disruption the students brought deliberately to class, where others were there to learn. It was a brave thing for a teacher (and an individual) to do -- teachers get to do brave things, too. I don't bow to the alter of "freedom of expression" at all times, because some words and behaviors are absolutely intolerable and disruptive to a teaching environment, and we actively trust teachers to know these boundaries and enforce them. The teacher blew it with yelling, and did the right thing taking the chair. Such is human nature.
In the specific case of the national anthem, it's all right by me to force people to stand for the event, but not to actively participate otherwise. Standing for the anthem is an act of toleration and respect that is widely expected and taught in society, and these behaviors are deliberately meant to be reinforced in school. Not all personal rights are to be respected in all environments (yelling "Fire!" in a movie theater, etc.). As an adult, the student in the video may choose not to be in a place where patriotic respect is demonstrated. Until then, most choices in school are already made for him and for other students, and there are few exceptions to that rule. Religion and medical necessity are the only two I can think of at the moment, and again, I think that standard of behavior is fine and enforcable. If the kid had a real and thoughtful problem with standing for the anthem, the teacher isn't obliged to provide a chair for that act of conscience. Like I said earlier, had the kid sat on the floor, THAT would have been an interesting situation.
And of course, violence and aggression are inappropriate reactions for a teacher in a class. The yelling may or may not have been intended to intimidate (I think it was). But the teacher's reactions are only part of the story here, and by far the larger problem is the set of circumstances that led to these assholes talking a camera into class with the intent to disrupt and humiliate an authority figure at work. Those circumstances most likely began out of the classroom long before the day of the recorded incident, though the behavior of the teacher in this case clearly added to the problem that day.
As a fellow psychologist, I'm glad you think highly of saint-like patience, but when 16- and 17-year-olds cross over the line of acceptable behaviors, I'm not sure what you suggest saint-like patience accomplishes. What do you suggest it accomplishes? I suggest that both patience and respect have a place in the classroom. Patience does nothing to defend a class from disruption. Respect has to be defended, for a teacher has a rightful place of authority in a classroom, and a school and the community have the right to promote civic respect.