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Originally Posted by roachboy
lcomplaining about what victims conservatives are surely advances nothing.
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So....using this train of thought.....all of the "complaints" about Bush, his admin, conservatives in general, christians, etc. is all o.k.
But if me, and others like me tire of it, it is not o.k. for us to voice our opinions of it?
Some of us don't think all of the world's ills fall on the conservative's shoulders.
Discussion could continue and be fruitful if we could communicate more effectively.
If you are on the "left" and you are trying to change/alter/sway/whatever someone's views, than I am your intended audience. If you lose me with your methods, you effectively accomplished nothing.
Some of us here are capable of looking at both sides. Have I not criticized Bush on several occasions? I am not trying to put myself on a pedestal, I am well aware of the filters I use to view this world.
What does tham mean?
It means the messenger is fucking up if the messenger has a good message and can't deliver it.
If I can't communicate my opinions to you without alienating you, I have accomplished nothing.
The quality of your opinion means nothing. How well thought out your opinion is, means nothing. If you can't communicate your opinions to me without alientaing me, than you have accomplished nothing; regardless of how much effort you put into formulating your opinion or how intelligent you are.
If all of us, left or right, held each other accountable to the quality and style of our arguments, we might actually get somewhere. Hell, i've snapped at Daswig for taking a discussion and throwing it off course.
Because, once it is off course, it is really hard to get it back.
If you think I am whining, then you misunderstand me.
I would actually like to participate more here, but I find that my options grow slimer each and every day.
We have to remember, that it is more than just the message, it is the way we try and deliver the message that matters. We may never agree, we may never change each other's opinion, but we may shed some light on things the other didn't know/wasn't aware of, etc.
But first, we have to get past our own assumptions (myself included) that anything the other side does/says is wrong just because it comes from the other side.
and here roach, is an example of what I mean
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Originally Posted by roachboy
what you have in the wider world is an attempt--from the right--to reduce debate to rehearsing arbitrary positions.
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Any possible point you may be trying to make just suddenly veered way off course. You will accomplish nothing with this. You'll get 'hell yeahs" from people with your political persuasion and you get ignored by people like me.
What is your intent here? What kind of effect do you think this would have on anybody you classify as "right".
Yes there are problems in this world, but they are not the all the fault of the "right". Under normal circumstances, I will read a statement like this and completely discount the entire content of the post because of it.
/end rant