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Originally Posted by abaya
Guthmund, that's quite a bold post... but in some ways I agree. I've just never been very successful at it, since most people (including myself) take their living habits quite personally and are offended at remarks to change those habits. Is someone more "adult" when they clean up after themselves, or is it more related to how that person was raised? (Is it more about maturity or living style?) Do most people really grow out of these things? And Guthmund, for you particularly, how do you manage to converse about these things without hurting the other person?
For me, I tend to get off my high horse of cleaning madness when I realize how messy I can be, too. But that doesn't help, either, as I feel that no matter who does it, the house ought to be clean. So then I get frustrated with myself in addition to the other person, which is just not good.  |
Thanks.
First of all, believe me, I'm not a not a neat freak, far from it. I have a tendency to leave things lying about. Books, magazines, glasses and the list goes on. It's not something I do consciously. It just happens.
On the other hand, as an adult, for lack of a better term, I also realize that I don't have someone to clean up after me. I don't have the extra cash to pay someone to clean up for me, as a side note: I wouldn't if I did. And it certainly isn't going to go away on it's own.
At first, I had to make a conscious effort to pick up after myself. I could delay the inevitable, but, in the end, I'm going to have to do it. So I choose to do it in small increments of work rather than one big day of working my ass off to clean up every couple of weeks. At 26, I realize that I'm not a teenager living at home anymore, I'm not living in a dorm where, it seems, it's acceptable and there are always other people to consider.
I've almost always lived with someone else; my family, a couple of roommates and one stint with girlfriend. I realized that I can't very well expect them to clean up after me, so, the 'adult' in me compromised. As much as I want to leave the glass on the table or leave the books, CDs, video games unshelved, I can't very well expect others to do my work and not expect some heat for it. So, I do it. I make the conscious effort to do it to avoid problems in the long run. Does it make me more 'adult?' Maybe. I am taking a bit of responsibility for myself, not much mind you, but a bit. If that's what 'adults' do, then, yeah, I guess it does.
As for broaching the subject, well it's all about respect for that other person. I see no reason why two 'adults,' again for lack of a better term, can't sit down and have a conversation about anything. One doesn't have to be confrontational to be direct, mind you. That's not to say that that happens all the time. As long as the conversation is serious in tone, without accusation and sarcasm free with a free exchange of ideas and feelings, it seems to work just fine as long as those involved are willing to really listen, willing to compromise and willing to make it work.
I've tried all other methods. I've tried praising. I've tried regular psychology and its' reverse. I've tried jokes & sarcasm, which is really just passive aggression wrapped up in dry wit. I've tried the carrot approach. I've tried the carrot and stick approach. They're all good methods for training animals or interns, although I'll admit dogs don't get the sarcasm and it rarely works with new hires. Some of them seem to work on the job, but that's not the same as a relationship such as with friends, family or lovers.
In this case nothing works better than a direct approach. Anything else and I'm not respecting them enough to come clean and relationships don't last long without respect. From both sides, mind you, as I would expect them to do the same for me.
Well, that was a little long winded, no?
