Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Master_Shake
Well, then you're a better man than I am. I would have a hard time being so forgiving if the cops threatened to sic dogs on me and had me arrested.
|
Who said anything about threatened. The dog was sic'd on me -- I was in a dark building, and didn't hear the calls for 'anyone there?'
The dog nibbled on me (well, held me with his teeth -- no skin was broken). I recieved worse injuries from playing with a friend's dog.
The act was understandable and measured, and the dog was well trained.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Master_Shake
Even assuming that the person had no legitimate purpose there (which I still see very little evidence to support. Just because he doesn't recognize the guy doesn't mean the guy had no business being there) at worst the guy was going in to sleep off a hangover, homeless and trying to find a place to stay, etc.
|
They didn't shoot him -- they simply wanted to find out why he was there. The only safe way to do this turned out to be calling the police.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Master_Shake
There is absolutely no evidence (from the story given) to suggest the guy was going to destroy anything or harm anybody.
|
No, there was no proof of imminent financial or physical harm. There was some evidence of criminal behaviour and breaking of societies legal taboos (using someone's property without their permission).
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Master_Shake
Now, recognizing that the guy MAY have been trespassing to find a place to sleep for the night, you still would have called the cops? That's just too weak for me to get the cops involved.
|
Yes, if someone is tresspassing for extended periods of time, I'd call the police. It's polite to the owner of the property.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Master_Shake
Is there so little crime near you that a homeless guy sleeping the night off is your biggest threat?
|
No, it isn't. I disagree with your standard. It's a silly, useless one.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Master_Shake
Is the remote possibility that a homeless guy is trying to get some rest such a pressing concern that you have to call the cops?
|
I understand the virtue of property rights. If that homeless man wants to ask permission to use the storage room for sleep, I have no problem with it.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Master_Shake
I was trying to be sarcastic and suggest that if you are so paranoid about strangers walking around then it would follow that you must live in a very protected area because there are a lot of strangers out there. I don't think that's a straw man argument, that's just taking your argument to an absurd conclusion.
|
A straw man arguement is when you hold up an arguement that your opponent didn't actually claim, and argue against it instead of against your opponent.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Master_Shake
The slightest inkling standard that the poster referred to here:
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kurty-b
Their business is their business, but if something strange is going on that gives me the slightest inkling it may endanger myself, friends, or my neighbors and/or our property then I am not just going to say "Ho hum, I better keep out of his business".
|
|
I will repeat myself -- he never said he'd call the police on the slightest inkling. I never said that. You are putting words in other people's mouths.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Master_Shake
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Yakk
Someone enters and stays inside a storage shed from an apparently unoccupied room. That is worthy of suspicion.
|
That probably happens a lot. Is it really necessary to get the police involved everytime? Couldn't those resources be put to better use? I think we have to weigh the costs and benefits of such action. |
If you can communicate with the person without backing them into a corner, there are better alternatives. In the USA with the commonness of guns, I would hesitate in talking to a complete stranger (esp. in an area where I would expect to know most people) without a large number of witnesses and other threat mitigators around.
The police where called because he didn't feel safe confronting the person in the storage shed.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Master_Shake
What would your decision be?
|
I'd call up the landlord myself -- but, as noted, they failed to find that number. Saying 'you cannot live in my building' is, in my opinion, a valid private property right. As such, I support it.
I also seek to avoid close sustained proximity in uncontrolled situations with people who don't have a vested interest in societal stability and who self-select for such proximity. While most people are good people, particular persons are pretty assholic. Random people are safe and honest, people who approach you are far less so.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Master_Shake
How is it being absolute to say that the purpose of the criminal justice system is to punish people? There may be rehabilitative aspects, but they are few and far between. The purpose, the driving force, the main motivation is to punish people. Do you really think the purpose is something else?
|
Because some of the philosophical basises for common-law is very non-retribution based. This includes American justice. There is a strain of retribution, a strain of rehabilitation, and other strains of justice, in the American justice system.
Your claim was overly broad and absolute.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Master_Shake
! So you admit that some laws shouldn't be enforced! Amazing. Well, how would you feel if your elderly neighbor called the police to report you for smoking weed and they show up on your doorstep with an attack dog and guns? Would you appreciate that?
|
No, my morals are not determined nor delimited by laws. The police are one tool I can use in my attempt to live morally. Sometimes living morally requires me to use force (direct, implicit or indirect) on others, in measured and restrained ways.
Simply because I disagree with some laws, doesn't mean I believe no law should be enforced.
I would disagree with that neighbour. And the police, if they found out that all I had done was smoke weed, would probably get pissed off at the neighbour. I'd had over my 100$ fine -- if they bothered to charge me -- and go on with my life.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Master_Shake
Well hey, if you're paying the taxes to support such things, then bully for you.
|
Neighbourhood watch is typically a volunteer thing, not a pay-taxes thing. Or at least that is what it is in my neck of the woods.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Master_Shake
It sounds like you live in a real tightly-run, moderated and controlled community. Nobody gets out of line or does anything wrong, right?
|
When you have alot invested in society, breaking societies rules and taboos in major ways is a high-risk activity. This keeps people civilized. There are other ways and reasons to be civilized, but this one seems to be more reliable than others.