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Banned
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Originally Posted by daswig
Given the fact that they did indeed FIND WMDs, that makes him or her factually wrong. People have a free speech right to say what they want. They do NOT have a free speech right to say what they want on the Government's dime. I have no problem with Churchill saying whatever he goddamned well pleases. But he can do it on a soapbox on a streetcorner, NOT using governmental assets.
As for my job, well, I'd rather not say, since I don't want people going and screaming to my "bosses" or the Governor. Sufficed to say, however, I don't serve coffee at Starbucks.
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daswig: when you or any other TFP member posts what I am
quoting from you, posted by you on this thread, I am going
to post these three things to refute what you are posting.
I plan to number each instance, consecutively. I'll stop when
you or other members stop, or if Duelfer or his succesor and
the POTUS, and the nytimes.com, all agree that the determination on whether WMDs were found, changes signifigantly. If more than the following documentation is
required by a signifigant majority of readers and posters on
the TFP political thread to "state the facts" surroundingt a contentious issue, then delusion will stifle more reasoned
points of view, in every instance.
Quote:
(Posted for the first time by host on a TFP thread)
<a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/01/20050112-7.html#1">http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/01/20050112-7.html#1</a>
<b>Excerpt from Scott McClellan Press Briefing, Jan. 12, 2005</b>
Q The President accepts that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, he said back in October that the comprehensive report by Charles Duelfer concluded what his predecessor had said, as well, <b>that the weapons that we all believed were there, based on the intelligence, were not there.</b> And now what is important is that we need to go back and look at what was wrong with much of the intelligence that we accumulated over a 12-year period and that our allies had accumulated over that same period of time, and correct any flaws.
Q I just want to make sure, though, because you said something about following up on additional reports and learning more about the regime. You are not trying to hold out to the American people the possibility that there might still be weapons somewhere there, are you?
MR. McCLELLAN: No, I just said that if there are -- if there are any other reports, obviously, of weapons of mass destruction, then people will follow up on those reports. I'm just stating a fact.
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Quote:
<a http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/12/in...12cnd-wmd.html
(copy and paste above link in google search box, you made need to register at nytimes site to view article)
Search for Illicit Weapons in Iraq Ends
By BRIAN KNOWLTON,
International Herald Tribune
Published: January 12, 2005
ASHINGTON, Jan. 12 - The White House confirmed today that the search in Iraq for the banned weapons it had cited as justifying the war that ousted Saddam Hussein has been quietly ended after nearly two years, with no evidence of their existence.
That means that the conclusions of an interim report last fall by the leader of the weapons hunt, Charles A. Duelfer, will stand. That report undercut prewar administration contentions that Iraq possessed biological and chemical weapons, was building a nuclear capability and might share weapons with Al Qaeda. A White House spokesman, Scott McClellan, insisted today that the war was justified. He rejected the suggestion that the administration's credibility had been gravely wounded in ways that could weaken its future response to perceived threats.
The administration appeared to be dropping today even the suggestion that banned weapons might be deeply buried or well hidden in Iraq. Mr. McClellan said that President Bush had already concluded, after the October release of an interim report from Mr. Duelfer, "that the weapons that we all believed were there, based on the intelligence, were not there."
Some administration officials have suggested that some arms might have been moved out of Iraq, perhaps to Syria. But Mr. McClellan appeared to rule that out.
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Quote:
<a href="http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_Election_04/Press10_21_04.pdf">http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_Election_04/Press10_21_04.pdf</a>
THE PIPA/KNOWLEDGE NETWORKS POLL.
THE AMERICAN PUBLIC ON INTERNATIONAL ISSUES
--Media Release--
Bush Supporters Still Believe Iraq Had WMD or Major Program,
Supported al Qaeda
Agree with Kerry Supporters Bush Administration Still Saying This is the Case
Agree US Should Not Have Gone to War if No WMD or Support for al Qaeda
Bush Supporters Misperceive World Public as Not Opposed to Iraq War,
Favoring Bush Reelection
For Release: Thursday October 21, 2004, 9 am Contact: Steven Kull (202) 232-7500
College Park, MD: Even after the final report of Charles Duelfer to Congress saying that Iraq did not
have a significant WMD program, 72% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq had actual
WMD (47%) or a major program for developing them (25%). Fifty-six percent assume that most
experts believe Iraq had actual WMD and 57% also assume, incorrectly, that Duelfer concluded Iraq had
at least a major WMD program. Kerry supporters hold opposite beliefs on all these points.
Similarly, 75% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq was providing substantial support to al
Qaeda, and 63% believe that clear evidence of this support has been found. Sixty percent of Bush
supporters assume that this is also the conclusion of most experts, and 55% assume, incorrectly, that this
was the conclusion of the 9/11 Commission. Here again, large majorities of Kerry supporters have
exactly opposite perceptions.
These are some of the findings of a new study of the differing perceptions of Bush and Kerry supporters,
conducted by the Program on International Policy Attitudes and Knowledge Networks, based on polls
conducted in September and October.
Steven Kull, director of PIPA, comments, “One of the reasons that Bush supporters have these beliefs is
that they perceive the Bush administration confirming them. Interestingly, this is one point on which
Bush and Kerry supporters agree.” Eighty-two percent of Bush supporters perceive the Bush
administration as saying that Iraq had WMD (63%) or that Iraq had a major WMD program (19%).
Likewise, 75% say that the Bush administration is saying Iraq was providing substantial support to al
Qaeda. Equally large majorities of Kerry supporters hear the Bush administration expressing these
views—73% say the Bush administration is saying Iraq had WMD (11% a major program) and 74% that
Iraq was substantially supporting al Qaeda.
Steven Kull adds, “Another reason that Bush supporters may hold to these beliefs is that they have not
accepted the idea that it does not matter whether Iraq had WMD or supported al Qaeda. Here too they
are in agreement with Kerry supporters.” Asked whether the US should have gone to war with Iraq if
-over-
US intelligence had concluded that Iraq was not making WMD or providing support to al Qaeda, 58% of
Bush supporters said the US should not have, and 61% assume that in this case the President would not
have. Kull continues, “To support the president and to accept that he took the US to war based on
mistaken assumptions likely creates substantial cognitive dissonance, and leads Bush supporters to
suppress awareness of unsettling information about prewar Iraq.”
This tendency of Bush supporters to ignore dissonant information extends to other realms as well.
Despite an abundance of evidence—including polls conducted by Gallup International in 38 countries,
and more recently by a consortium of leading newspapers in 10 major countries--only 31% of Bush
supporters recognize that the majority of people in the world oppose the US having gone to war with
Iraq. Forty-two percent assume that views are evenly divided, and 26% assume that the majority
approves. Among Kerry supporters, 74% assume that the majority of the world is opposed.
Similarly, 57% of Bush supporters assume that the majority of people in the world would favor Bush’s
reelection; 33% assumed that views are evenly divided and only 9% assumed that Kerry would be
preferred. A recent poll by GlobeScan and PIPA of 35 of the major countries around the world found
that in 30, a majority or plurality favored Kerry, while in just 3 Bush was favored. On average, Kerry
was preferred more than two to one.
Bush supporters also have numerous misperceptions about Bush’s international policy positions.
Majorities incorrectly assume that Bush supports multilateral approaches to various international
issues—the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (69%), the treaty banning land mines (72%)—and for
addressing the problem of global warming: 51% incorrectly assume he favors US participation in the
Kyoto treaty. After he denounced the International Criminal Court in the debates, the perception that he
favored it dropped from 66%, but still 53% continue to believe that he favors it. An overwhelming 74%
incorrectly assumes that he favors including labor and environmental standards in trade agreements. In
all these cases, majorities of Bush supporters favor the positions they impute to Bush. Kerry supporters
are much more accurate in their perceptions of his positions on these issues.
“The roots of the Bush supporters’ resistance to information,” according to Steven Kull, “very likely lie
in the traumatic experience of 9/11 and equally in the near pitch-perfect leadership that President Bush
showed in its immediate wake. This appears to have created a powerful bond between Bush and his
supporters--and an idealized image of the President that makes it difficult for his supporters to imagine
that he could have made incorrect judgments before the war, that world public opinion could be critical
of his policies or that the President could hold foreign policy positions that are at odds with his
supporters.”
The polls were conducted October 12-18 and September 3-7 and 8-12 with samples of 968, 798 and 959
respondents, respectively. Margins of error were 3.2 to 4% in the first and third surveys and 3.5% on
September 3-7. The poll was fielded by Knowledge Networks using its nationwide panel, which is
randomly selected from the entire adult population and subsequently provided internet access. For more
information about this methodology, go to www.knowledgenetworks.com/ganp.
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