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Originally Posted by Master_Shake
Bill's money would have been protected had he not risked anything, not due to capital, but due to government protections.
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Huh? You are saying that Bill, back in the early 80s, could have taken his money, put it in a bank, and said 'abrakadabra', and ended up being worth 10s of billions of dollars now?
I simply don't understand.
Do you understand the concept of stock prices? The unpredictability of the market?
You, or your parent, could have taken your life savings and bought Microsoft stock in the early 80s, and you or they'd be a multi-millionare right now. Buying that stock would be a risk.
It was a risk. Microsoft could have failed. Really.
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Right, so they are not the same thing. The government protects Bill's right to collect money.
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Ok. Let me see if I can spell this out.
Windows is an operating system designed and written based off funding by the
profit motive.
Linux is an operating system designed and written based off funding by the
I like neat shit, and I need neat shit to do my work motive.
They are not the same thing. I claim that Linux is not Windows because the profit motive is stronger than the 'neat shit' motive for many things.
So, if you removed all intellectual property rights, nobody would write Windows. The motive wouldn't be there.
There are
benefitial side effects to intellectual property. It provides motivation to do something. Even if you don't think IP is a good idea, can you even admit that there could be some small benefitial side effects, or would that infringe upon your dogma?
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Right, but how is Bill equally as productive as the poor fuck in India churning out code?
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Now you are just ignoring me.
Concentrations of capital occur as a side effect of capitalism.
Capitalism assigns the means of production based off one's ability to be productive
and one's ability to allocate your capital to profitable means of production.
Bill Gates gets money from three things. First, his direct productivity (probably a small contribution). Second, his massive capital accumulation. Third, directing the use of capital, which in the past he has shown to be good at. (where good means 'making capital grow')
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It's not kept quiet! It's very clear. How much do you pay in taxes? That money is clearly taken from you to support the leviathan every damn week!
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How is that unfalsifiable? Don't you pay taxes every week? Where do you think those taxes go?
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So, taxes are the entirety of this giant conspiracy to keep wages low? Heh.
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Is your car the means of production or distribution? I guess maybe you could make a claim that it's part of the distribution network, but ownership of your car is hardly enough to impact the entire economy.
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It is a means of production. Namely, I can deliver pizza. Hell, I own stock in dozens upon dozens of companies, while we are at it.
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Why are you telling me what to do? Why have you determined what my "share" is? You don't sound any better than the mafia running this joint as it is now.
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I am describing what life would be like without government. You said you wanted to try. So go try. If you believe the world would be better without government, then the would would be better.
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Originally Posted by Master_Shake
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Originally Posted by Yakk
I said insufficient economic incentive. I didn't say nobody would do it. Fewer people than there should be, in order to maximize everyone's well being, would be doing it.
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Well, we will never know will we, since the government is going to ensure that doesn't happen. |
We could to insane things like model shit. Or we could do experiments. Or we could look at situations where it doesn't apply. You know, actually figure it out.
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Originally Posted by Master_Shake
That actually makes sense. The pharmeceutical companies aren't lobbying Canada to keep the drugs artificially expensive, they're doing it in the US.
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Patent law is only somewhat different in Canada than the USA.
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Originally Posted by Master_Shake
I don't know how much the roads would cost, but would we need all of the roads if we didn't all have to go to soul-sucking jobs that help keep the man rich?
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I'm just boggled. You don't understand why road transportation networks are useful even? *boggle*
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Originally Posted by Master_Shake
What does the government enable you to do?
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I've listed at least 20 different things the government does for me, and for you. Didn't you read them?
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Originally Posted by Master_Shake
So that's what you claim the difference is?
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That's one of the differences I listed. Don't forget:
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Originally Posted by Master_Shake
If you removed the government (just made it go poof), would people be better off? While we are at it, lets remove all governments. I hold the answer is no.
If you removed the Mafia (just made it go poof), would people be better off? While we are at it, lets remove all crime organizations. I hold the answer is yes.
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So, one is a 'good' thing the other one is a 'bad' thing.
Lets consider a situation.
In one, someone dings your car. He leaves 1$ on your windshield, and a note saying 'sorry'.
In the other, someone dings your car. She leaves you 1,000,000$ on your windshield, and a note saying 'sorry'.
The damage to the car is about 1,000$. Note that in the first case, the person was a fucking asshole. In the second case, the person was exceedingly generous and very nice to you.
Using the system of morals you designed, both of those people are equivilent. They dinged your car, then left some money, without even negotiating the price!
You need to learn how to both add and subtract.
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Originally Posted by asaris
And last time I checked, the gov't doesn't threaten people with violence if they don't pay taxes. Sure, they'll fine you and/or put you in jail, but you make it sound like you'll be shot if you don't pay up (which is what the mafia does).
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In the final analysis, they actually do. It is just a very extreme response that you can eventually reach.
Lets say you don't recognize the right of the government over you. So you don't pay taxes.
They send bills at you. You ignore them.
Eventually, they attempt to sieze your assets. You deal with them as you would a thief, and defend your property.
They send a few police officers to arrest you. An armed woman breaks into your house, with no justification
that you recognize as valid. You shoot at her, and kill her. The next police officer shoots at you and kills you.
In general, failing to follow the customs of the society you are in, or at least pay lip service to them, is a very dangerous thing.