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Originally Posted by Master_Shake
I don't go to work because I choose to, I do it because I have to, and Iwould die or be killed if I didn't. I work to make others rich and happy. I am subservient to the laws and lawmakers in this country. How is that not a slave?
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If you do not work, and do things for others, others will not feed you. Is this slavery?
If, in addition to this, you do not feed yourself, you will starve.
This is slavery, but it is slavery to the laws of nature. Enthropy happens, in our case via shit.
You can break any law you want. You can leave the Nation, and all it's benefits, behind you. You arrived with nothing, and can choose to leave with nothing.
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Originally Posted by Master_Shake
Being able to choose which Overseer will watch you as you work does not make you free.
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Strangely, it does.
First, are you treating 'free' as a matter of shades of grey, or as a matter of black and white? As demonstrated above, the laws of nature enslave you. So if it is black and white, you are already doomed.
Selecting your overseer makes you more free.
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Originally Posted by flstf
I was born here, I had no choice in the matter.
You tell me that I am a slave to the state I had no choice in selecting.
You tell me I have to follow rules I had no choice in making.
You tell me I have to pay taxes (slave labor) to polititians I had no choice in selecting.
You tell me I have to pay for roads etc.. I don't want.
You tell me I can't hire anyone I want for my business.
You tell me I can't even live in the house I was born in unless I pay you taxes.
You tell me I have a say in what you do but we both know that is false.
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You where born in a house. This gives you no rights over the house, you where just born there.
Fixed taxes, or head taxes, are analagous to slave labour. Marginal taxes are far less analagous. If you had to pay 500$/year, period, that would be (effectively) slave labour.
You have to realize, all the land has been claimed. You have to justify your existance. Existance isn't a free lunch. If you wish to no longer exist, feel free.
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Originally Posted by Master_Shake
Look, I'm not suggesting that we build something else, I don't know of an alternative. People always have been exploited and probably always will be exploited, and I accept that. I am one man who cannot hope to change things, and honestly the risks are so high (of being imprisoned or killed) that I don't have the courage to change them. You want me to work at a shitty job for shitty wages so you can buy a yacht, fine. I don't have any other real choice.
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Exploitation, in and of itself, is neutral. At the very least, it matters far less than many other things.
Building society to remove exploitation is a poor choice. That is the trap that Marx fell into.
I consider money and wealth to be a wonderful way to get rich people to work for me. Yes, work for me.
They work hard to figure out how to serve me. I live a nice, casual, stress-free life, with all my important needs delt with. Meanwhile, people work there asses off making sure I live in safety, providing me with amusement and goods.
And all they get out of it is a big number in some computer somewhere, and slightly fancier toys.
Service isn't slavery. People serve each other.
In our society, take a look at the rich people. A bunch of them are entertainers, another bunch are business people. Entertainers exist to amuse me. Business people exist to provide me with whatever I want.
Are they my slaves?