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Old 01-31-2005, 05:55 PM   #36 (permalink)
RCAlyra2004
Crazy
 
Location: North of the 50th Parallel
OK I think that all of you have missed the point (but only slightly...)

I live in a northern climate far north of the america border... I see this stuff daily..

In highschool we used to add small stone chips to beakers of water when we were heating them in order to get the water to start boiling at a lower temperature. (The water would actually boil at 212 Degrees just like it was supposed to) The water would form bubbles on the tips of the stone chips and boil before reaching a superheated stage.

I remember well when our science teacher showed us how you could Superheat (Heat higher than 212 degrees) distilled water in a perfectly clean beaker. Once it started to boil it would all boil off in a flash and bubble over the top very quickly... it was almost like an explosion.

Well... for your information you can also supercool distilled or bottled water to well below 32 degrees F. especially if it is perfectly clean and (ha ha ) and has no backwash from your mouth in it. (hence the difference between the two bottles)

I suggest that the water in the unopened bottle was actually supercooled to the degree that the ice crystals had not yet formed.

I have seen this:
I saw the most amazing thing one winter morning when I left a 5 gallon Jug of Bottled water in my trunk over night. ... I remembered it when I woke up and expected the jug to have burst in my car. I went out to my car and the Jug was completely liquid. but it was still -8 Centigrade. I picked up the jug and carried it in to the house... when I set it on the kitchen table with a thump it spontaneously started to produce crystals in the water... the whole jug turned to ice in about 15 seconds... and the whole family saw it. ... it was spectacular! .. until the top of the jug cracked....

We also have similar problem with fresh water forming ice deep underwater on the structures of our power stations. Because the water moves so quickly through the river it can become super cooled without freezing. It is weird to see large patches of open water when it is -40 outside. But as soon as the water touches the concrete structure of our dams is freezes and can even plug the passageways. This is called frazzle ice and it has hampered our ability to generate power during winter months. Usually we can alleviate the problem with good engineering or by temporarily closing the passage way so the water rebounds to it's normal state... not frozen...

Check out this link for more info on frazzle ice or super cooled water.

[http://www.undercurrentsonline.com/f...messageid=849]

EDIT >>> Sorry... link doesn't work and I don't know why but here is the letter in full... attached below It's been a sl "ice"

Quote:
The story behind Barrier operation during winter months.

When weather conditions are right, frazzle ice forms in the Bow River.
Frazzle ice freezes to anything in contacts, therefore plugs the intakes at
the two hydro plants located at Seebe. Water released from Barrier is
warmer than the water in the Bow River and reduces the intake plugging at
the Seebe plants. When this condition occurs we operate Barrier plant at a
reduced flow to reduce the volume of water arriving at Seebe and to allow
the Barrier plant operation period to be extended through the night. I have
been loading the Barrier plant for 3 or 4 hours in the early evening to
manage its storage level, however we don't know how severe the plugging
will be on any given day so there is a high probability of scheduled runs
being changed. Today the frazzle ice is very heavy again and the evening
run has to be cancelled.
The ideal condition to create frazzle ice in a river is open water, an air
temperature between -2 and -7 Centigrade with a wind/breeze blowing downstream. This
year the condition has been perfect virtually every day for the last 4 to 5
weeks, not normal but also not a first. I remember frazzle ice through
Christmas in the mid seventies, but can't remember the problem ever
persisting into January. It maybe different this year; things are always
changing and this year is turning into the most severe we've experienced in
several years. The problem goes away after the Bow River forms a solid ice
cover. Historically this happens between mid November and end of the year.
Ice cover is now forming slowly as cold, calm nights have been few and far
between.

RCALYRA
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Living on the edge of sanity

Last edited by RCAlyra2004; 01-31-2005 at 06:02 PM..
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