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Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei
First off, we helped people who couldn't help themselves. They once tried to revolt, they got stomped. I don't think that the country can "sway either way" at this point, you are crazy if you think the vast majority of Iraqi's want to subject themselves to baathist rule again.
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Desipte the fact we weren't around for it, most people thought the french would never be able to overthrow the monarchy. Fallujah was openly in defiance of Saddam long before America decided to liberate them. Who are you to say tehy couldn't help themselves? Do you watch Fox News and sit back in your big chair and consider what you've seen? I was in Iraq and saw actual protests. That's right, protests. They were openly defying Sasddam. Guess what? None of them were gased. The police showed up and made their presence known (non-violent methods) and the crowd left. No blood was spilled.
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Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei
Secondly your exaltation of "peaceful" countries like France and Germany is a joke. They were enablers plan and simple, the only reason they opposed this war was because of 1) selfish economic factors 2) because they had been violating sanctions for year 3) trying to get oil for themselves 4) to prevent us from getting to oil which would regulate them and other countries and 5) to act as a counter balance to US influence. I'm saying this as a general statement, but you are ignorant (either willingly or not) and warped if you think countries who voted in opposition to this war were doing it out of some great moral prinicple.
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I think you know that everything is relative. No country is perfect, and they all have some degree of coruption. Do you think the people on the streets of France and Germany protesting were trying to get oil?! I dare say the ignorance is on your side. As France, Germany, and Canada are better democracies than us, they are better represented by their people, in addition to their governments. What does your morality tell you about attacking Iraq?
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Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei
Your last paragraph about torture is a joke and at best unfounded. This board has already many arguments about it, so I'm not about to rehash it, however I will say that the system as far as Guatanmo bay is working. When someone murders somebody they are not allowed to roam freely until sentence is passed one way or another, they are detained; likewise when someone is accused of acts in violation of articles of war and conventions they are detained and they are relinquished to the proper authority, which is accordance with US law is the military, as stated in the constitution.
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If someone were to murder someone, they are found guilty on mevidence. We all know from those other posts you mentioned that these people cannot be found guilty, so they are heald indeinfatally without trial. The conclusion to draw form that is America believes that it's citizens are better than the other people of the world. We get to have a triel, but supposed enemies don't have to be proven guilty before we punish them.
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Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei
Your main point about freedom and being relative though is weak. We aren't instilling per say our type of democracy in Iraq. They just had their first free elections in 50+ years yesterday. They don't have a sitting government they only have a transitional authority. The specifics of their freedom is going to be decided in the next year, they don't have a constitution of their own yet, that's why they elected delegates, they are free to do with it as they please, that is the brilliance of freedom.
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In order to get these elections, thousands of Iraqi citizens die at our hands.
The Nazi party had the freedom to commit the holocaust. Where was the brilliance in that?