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raveneye, while i don't disagree with your sentiments about the biology of race (i in fact agree with you), but it still stands that people make differences based on what they see, i.e. phenotype
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Certainly this is true, as I said clearly in the post you are responding to. My comments on the biology of race were specifically within the context of the questionable value of the goal of "racial diversity" not discrimination per se.
So in other words, I am saying that AA used for the purpose of promoting "racial diversity" is of very dubious value, since in practical terms it comes down to little more than diversity in nose width and skin melanin production.
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while the philosophical argument of what race is or isn't, or does it even exist, is a great topic... it does nothing to answer the question of necessity of affirmative action programs.
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I would say it is relevant to the question of the necessity of AA, if the purpose of any particular AA implementation is to capture something that is biologically imaginary.
If the purpose of an AA implementation is to increase the socioeconomic status of a disadvantaged group, I would say that is a good and worthwhile purpose, regardless of the reasons the group is disadvantaged (e.g. because of biologically imaginary traits). I am questioning, however, whether AA as currently used is the best (fairest, most beneficial in the long term) way to do this.
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the simple fact that a man like george w. bush can graduate with a c average, attend business school at harvard, become governor after many failed business ventures (oil, getting rid of sammy sosa), and then become president shows, in my eyes, that affirmative action programs are indeed necessary.
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AA was started in 1965, when George W. Bush was only 19 years old. It certainly didn't prevent money and influence from getting him pretty much whatever he wanted. I don't see your logic here.
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getting into a post graduate school with a c average?!?!?!?!?! i don't think anyone can argue that it was anything but privelege that helped him get into business school at harvard.
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And that is still happening, 40 years after AA was started.
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i have a hard time imaging that a woman or a historically underrepresented minority could get into business school at harvard after having a c average in an undergraduate institution.
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Well I don't know about Harvard, but that is certainly happening not uncommonly in schools all over the country, due to AA or similar "diversity" initiatives in some schools.
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what many people seem to think is that affirmative action programs allow people who aren't qualified in the least bit, a position/seat at an institution. this is hardly the case. rather, people who tend to be ignored are now looked at.
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I served for 7 years on the Graduate Admissions Committee of a major university, and I can tell you from personal experience that you are wrong here. We admitted people routinely who self-identified as "black" whom we never would have admitted if they were white. About half of those students dropped out within a year.
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are all administrators/board of directors/human resource managers/those in charge of hiring/admission committee members racist?!? i wouldn't think so. but are there things that may cloud their judgement/taint their view? sure.
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Everybody is biased in one way or another. Like Manx said, we all feel more comfortable around familiar faces. On the other hand, some people I've noticed feel competitively threatened by people they identify as the "same race". Which way the bias goes depends on who is there at the helm making these decisions. The committee that I was on was very sympathetic to minorities, except for one Chinese professor who was very negative toward Chinese applicants. Other committees that I've seen have not been sympathetic to minority applicants.
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outcome was that even though the resumes were the same, people in positions of power tended to choose the resumes with culturally/racially neutral names
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I'm sure that's rampant, but my purpose here has never been to deny that. I'm just questioning whether AA as currently implemented is the best way of dealing with it. I have thought about this a lot and I believe as of now that it is not.
I'm open to argument, however, with anybody of any gender or race
