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Old 01-28-2005, 11:42 AM   #6 (permalink)
Robaggio
Crazy
 
d*d: It is a loop. Simulations run by looping many many many times. Just because it's a loop however, does not meant that conditions cannot change each iteration of that loop. If the creature did something to satisfy order in one iteration, it 'remembers' the sequence which gave it order. Then, on subsequent iterations of the loop, it would have a greater tendancy to perform that sequence again rather than exhibit complete randomness. The only reason the creature would have a "tendancy" to repeat a sequence rather than have it being manditory is to prevent itself from becoming bottlenecked down a particular path of order. Not all sequences lead to additional sequences of continued order- therefore, while the creature would have a desire to repeat ordered sequences, it wouldn't be mutually exclusive enough so that it didn't find more ordered sequences. This mirrors evolution: Through some sequence, we are able to reproduce. It is an orderly one- the sequences involved in the creation of a new human being are very ordered, yet, there's still implicit randomness. Mutation can occur every time a cell divides. You could think of it this way: the human body has a tendancy or desire to divide it's cells in an orderly fashion, however, you can see that it still exhibits some randomness.

Augi: Advanced AI can and does create new levels and variables to monitor itself. Each time a desirable sequence occurs, it monitors that sequence with a new variable. It compares each sequence with one another, prioritizing and ordering sequences based on their chaoticness. The AI is able to 'forget' sequences (code). As time goes on, the probability of certain sequences occuring tends to go down- this is forgetting- if a sequence isn't favorable in reducing variables from fluxuating, then it doesn't exhibit the sequence as much and it is eventually phased out. There are many evolutionary traits that were once favorable to have as humans. The genetic code exists to still produce the traits, but, in lieu of more desireable and less chaotic ones, they don't get exhibited. In other words, our bodies "forget" to display them. A good example is seen in the ammount of body hair we have. At some point in our evolution, we started to lose dense hair all over our bodies. Some people still exhibit this trait (think: bearded ladies or "monkey boy" - people with thick hair covering their whole body), which reinforces the fact that while certain sequences are more desirable, it does not mean that they will be exhibited all the time.

munchen: The universe is working towards a state of inert uniformity: energy is degredating and diffusing to the point where it is no longer in a useful form. This is called entropy, and while the typical view of entropy is equated to chaos and disorder, in terms of energy uniformity, it's actually the perfect state of order: it's the point at which energy stops changing. When energy stops changing, time is effected. Time is the monitor of change. If things stop changing, then time ceases to pass or even exist. If something did nothing, it indeed would be perfectly ordered. However, this cannot be done as long as energy is active and time exists. It is assumed that since the creature exists in the world, energy is not constant. I stated that there was gravity in the simulation- this would imply that some form of energy is present and changing, thus the existence of chaos. It is unreasonable to have the creature do nothing, as this would imply that the world is at equilibrium and thus ordered to begin with. The key factor here is that the environment the creature exists in is innately chaotic. You need not know why the creature wants to order itself, only the fact that it has that desire.

You see, it would be very easy for life to stop attempting to create order from chaos. However, it isn't neccisarilly life which is attempting order, but rather chaos which orders itself. For example, the basic building blocks of life occur naturally outside of life itself. The phospholipid bilayer that makes up the cell wall occurs naturally in aquatic environments. The desire to create order is a manifestation of chaos itself. Given this, all 'higher level' desires (such as the creature's desire to reduce randomness or human's desire to procreate in a certain sequence) are derivatives of what exists naturally. I do not know the point at which life 'started' and began taking a set course through evolution. It is interesting to think however, that beginning life was being pushed and molded through chaos falling into order. Everything that happens afterwords is irrelivant- life's goal is to reduce chaos.

C4 - The bleak nothingness I speak of was more of a religious poke. It has been theorized by humans and religion to believe that we exist in some grander scheme of things. I was trying to point out that chaos seems to order itself naturally. The "bleak reality" is me trying to say that ordered existence exists naturally. That the order we exhibit, the order that energy exhibits, is merely a natural occurance of existence itself. It seems bleak to take it at face value. However, this is only because people have a tendancy to puff themselves up- to make themselves feel special, or to just be able to sleep better at night knowing that whatever happens everything will be O.K. because "god loves you". Bleakness is: existence *just is*. It's only bleak because it's the way things are. (Seems circular, doesn't it? )

Last edited by Robaggio; 01-28-2005 at 11:44 AM..
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