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Originally Posted by daswig
Mephisto, the people on Hammer's side of the argument are counting....COUNTING on destroying Bush's and the American People's will to win. They know that they can't defeat us militarily, so they encourage the insurgents to adopt the most horrible methods to try and convince the American people that it's just not worth it. It's Vietnam all over again. Giap stated (I'm paraphrasing here) that he knew that the war was militarily lost, but people like John Kerry and Jane Fonda were his one great hope, that they could "snatch defeat from the jaws of victory" for America, and so all Giap had to do was keep the heat on and wait. It worked then, and now the "Hate America no matter what they do" crowd is trying to do it again.
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So, you really believe the war in Veitnam was a good thing for the USA to be doing?
Veitnam was a mistake piled upon a mistake piled upon a mistake, held together by hubris, and resulted in the deaths of millions.
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Originally Posted by daswig
BTW, folks, let me drop this on yall:
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"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged."
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I'd suggest that this logic should be applied to the general population as well. |
Let me drop this on you:
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Those who sacrafice liberty for a little security deserve neither.
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I'd suggest that this logic be applied to you.
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Originally Posted by daswig
In over a full year of war, we've lost less people than we lost on the beaches during D-Day, when we were faced by old men and young boys as an adversary (read Keegan on the makeup of the beach defense units).
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Over 50% of the first wave of invasion of D-Day on Omaha beach died. Those soldiers faced death, and you dismiss their sacrafice as small. D-Day was a sacrafice of blood made by heros. Please don't belittle it.
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"within 10 minutes of the ramps being lowered, [the leading] company had become inert, leaderless and almost incapable of action. Every officer and sergeant had been killed or wounded [...] It had become a struggle for survival and rescue"
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Boats of soldiers charging up steep seawalls into artillery and automatic weapon fire. Beaches covered in death. The largest amphibious invasion in the history of the fucking world, the turning point of the western front of the largest war in human history -- and just because fewer people have died in Iraq than one of the bloodiest battles of human history, you consider it ignoreable?
Fuck. People really think that way?
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Originally Posted by daswig
Ah, but you see, there's a pretty big difference between saying "I'll do what's necessary in accordance with the law, even if it means shooting people", and saying "I hope I get a chance to shoot cops." One is describing a legal act, and one isn't.
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Have you truely grasped the concept that the law and morality are different things? I can point you to a philosphical explanation if you'd like.
Many laws are moral, but something being illegal doesn't make it immoral. A very simple extension above the 'law = morality' ethical system is acknowledging the constitution and other social contracts as being above the law. If you push far enough, you can even get to the point where "it is better to die on your feet than live on your knees" becomes more than a cute slogan.