Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - More confederacy debate, and now it's right across the lawn

Superbelt · 01-19-2005, 10:09 AM

sob: I didn't waver, I have completely changed my position after reading the philosophy of the paradox of democratic secession.
The document would not be made illegal because of an agreement made before the signing of the contract. The signers should have realized they would have had no true right to secceed before signing. They would still be bound by the contract but would be barred from performing the illegal action that they were granted from outside the contract.

I take the position that once the states became one nation, individual states do not have the right to break away because they are american citizens first and state resident second. We don't go abroad and identify what state we are from, we identify that we are americans.
The south attempted to seceede because of decisions our government was making were unfavorable to them. Tough titty, under the umbrella of democracy we vote on issues as a nation and make decisions that affect us all. They knew this going in, they shouldn't have expected to be in the drivers seat on every issue forever. It is just not realistic and not democratic.

We are and always were american citizens, by the time of the civil war, everyone who was alive was born an american citizen. We make decisions together, the south did not even try to get together and vote with the rest of the nation on whether or not they would be allowed to leave (the only way they could seceede in a democracy) as such, they didn't have the right.

on Habeas:
You could make a case that suspending a part of the constitution is the same as suspending the whole thing. For a president to suspend any one part of it makes the rest of it just as vulnerable.

dunedan:
What the hell.
We pay more per capita and we have more people, that means we pay more in dollar amount as well.
But I never want this nation to be broken apart anyway. We need the south and midwest for their food production and the south and midwest needs the NE and West coast for our economic strength.
BTW, I am from PA, we have plenty of coal, building-stone, etc up here as it is.

Per dollar given to the Fed, this is how much each of these states get back. Those are the ten highest.
1. D.C. ($6.17)
2. North Dakota ($2.03)
3. New Mexico ($1.89)
4. Mississippi ($1.84)
5. Alaska ($1.82)
6. West Virginia ($1.74)
7. Montana ($1.64)
8. Alabama ($1.61)
9. South Dakota ($1.59)
10. Arkansas ($1.53)

But this a whole different issue that we already covered here.

01-19-2005, 10:09 AM	#116 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	sob: I didn't waver, I have completely changed my position after reading the philosophy of the paradox of democratic secession. The document would not be made illegal because of an agreement made before the signing of the contract. The signers should have realized they would have had no true right to secceed before signing. They would still be bound by the contract but would be barred from performing the illegal action that they were granted from outside the contract. I take the position that once the states became one nation, individual states do not have the right to break away because they are american citizens first and state resident second. We don't go abroad and identify what state we are from, we identify that we are americans. The south attempted to seceede because of decisions our government was making were unfavorable to them. Tough titty, under the umbrella of democracy we vote on issues as a nation and make decisions that affect us all. They knew this going in, they shouldn't have expected to be in the drivers seat on every issue forever. It is just not realistic and not democratic. We are and always were american citizens, by the time of the civil war, everyone who was alive was born an american citizen. We make decisions together, the south did not even try to get together and vote with the rest of the nation on whether or not they would be allowed to leave (the only way they could seceede in a democracy) as such, they didn't have the right. on Habeas: You could make a case that suspending a part of the constitution is the same as suspending the whole thing. For a president to suspend any one part of it makes the rest of it just as vulnerable. dunedan: What the hell. We pay more per capita and we have more people, that means we pay more in dollar amount as well. But I never want this nation to be broken apart anyway. We need the south and midwest for their food production and the south and midwest needs the NE and West coast for our economic strength. BTW, I am from PA, we have plenty of coal, building-stone, etc up here as it is. Per dollar given to the Fed, this is how much each of these states get back. Those are the ten highest. 1. D.C. ($6.17) 2. North Dakota ($2.03) 3. New Mexico ($1.89) 4. Mississippi ($1.84) 5. Alaska ($1.82) 6. West Virginia ($1.74) 7. Montana ($1.64) 8. Alabama ($1.61) 9. South Dakota ($1.59) 10. Arkansas ($1.53) But this a whole different issue that we already covered here.