Mephisto2

Because I was basing my statement on the belief that you were not suggesting infants should be allowed to vote. That's just silly and you know it.

If an infant, unable to talk properly, unable to relate to the world around them, should be allowed to vote because they "can check a box" then you are living in a fantasy world.

That would mean parents could simply tell their children where to vote.
That, in turn, would subvert democracy.
That, in turn, is something I'm sure you're not supporting.

Therefore, we know there has to be line drawn somewhere. Because failure to draw that line results in unsafe results. Infants cannot make those judgements.

Once we have accepted the fact that a line is required, the only remaining issue is where that line be drawn; at what age should voting be permitted. As I said, Western society has evolved such that 18 is considered the normal stage when children are welcomed into adulthood. I have accepted that there are exceptions, but laws and rules cannot be based upon a case by case basis. A systematic, repeatable, consistent, definable solution is required. These are generally known as "laws" and, in this case, the law states that a person must be 18 or over to vote.

Now, you can argue the philosophical basis upon which those laws are based if you wish. The same way I can argue against society's assumption that I should wear clothes. But it doesn't change the fact that said laws (voting laws) are based upon generations of precedent, tradition and (recently) scientific fact.

Children mature during their teens. This has been proven. Please don't ask me to search the web for references, as I'm unwilling to believe you don't accept that. Therefore, a teen (statistically speaking) of 18 years age will be more mature than a teen of 17 years age. Indeed, a 21 year old will probably be more mature again. But we have moved away from 21 as the age of maturity to 18. And I don't see the benefit of going any younger.

Are you a father?

Do you let your child decide what the family is going to do every day?
Do you let your child decide what car you're going to buy?
Do you let your child decide what time you are to go to bed?
Do you let your child decide how much to spend on your mortgage?

We all know the answers to these questions. The answer is no. Or the answer would be no (if you're not a father). Does that make your child a second class citizen? No.


Do we let children buy weapons? No. Does that make them second class citizens? No.
Do we let children drive cars? No. Does that make them second class citizens? No.
Do we let children join the armed forces and fight in armed conflicts? No. Does that make them second class citizens? No.

Again, you get the picture.

Many "rights" are limited to those of a certain age. Driving. Purchasing weapons. Joining the military. Purchasing property. Voting.

It is not one of my prerequisites. It is a fact that children mature. Therefore, society has deemed a certain level of maturity is required.

The fact that the US executes mentally handicapped people is beside the point. It's one of only a handful of countries that do. You're up there with you friends China and Iran. Good for you.

With regards to the question on whether mentally handicapped persons are allowed to vote, I don't believe they are. I'm not certain of US law however. This just goes to show that certain rights can be with-held.

Yes I did. I expound on that further above.

When did I ever say it wasn't about maturity? It's not about a case by case analysis of maturity, but society's consideration as to when children are adult.

As I said above, if you don't believe me that children are less mature than adults please do your own google. I'm not going to waste time on such a ridiculous assertion.

And I said, statistically and ontogenologically speaking, children are less mature. You want proof? You really don't believe that?

Let's see how comfortable you would feel sending 14 year olds over to Iraq. How about letting 12 year olds on the roads. While we're at it, let's hand over responsibility for America's nuclear arsenal to 16 year olds. Let's make sure your bank manager's job is open to 8 year olds.

I hope I have.


Mr Mephisto