Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - Middle East Peace Plan and the Settlements

crumbbum · 05-14-2003, 01:41 PM

when you ask what methods were used to establish this foothold, I assume you are talking about the settlements. The settlements were built, and that's about it. No arab property was ever stolen or built on, they were meticulous about this. They just built towns and communities, and people moved there, and that's it. You mentioned Ben-Gurion speaking about the founding of Israel- I assume by this you mean the 48 war? I don't know which words you are referring to. Some arabs were expelled from their villages, and their villages destroyed in the course of the war. This is because many of the arab villages were being used as forward bases, supply depots, and training camps by the arab armies, as well as the the Mufti's gangs in Palestine. That's war for you. Villages that weren't a military threat were left alone. Certainly in some cases the arabs were driven out. That is a reality of war. It wasn't done to steal the land for settlement, it was done for defense. Other arab villages in stategically important locations were seized. It must be understood that if the arabs hadn't declared a war of annihilation on the jews in Palestine, there never would have been any expulsions. The blame for what the jews had to do in self-defense is on the Arab countries, and those among the palestinians, who created the situation. the jews only wanted to live in peace with their neighbors, even asking for peaceful coexistence in their declaration of independence.
What do you see as going on with the settlements? I have stated the Israeli governments reasons for building them and supporting them- they strengthen the security of the state of Israel, a tiny country that needs the territorial depth to defend itself if attacked, and also needs to control the high ground in the land. They, in the end, want to retain as much control of the West bank as they can. This isn't surprising. They tried to make peace with the Palestinians, with Oslo, which resulted in the current terror war. In 1996, the failure of the peace accords, and the false premises upon which they had been built had become apparent to the Israeli government. The terror groups hadn't been taken out, and incitement was getting worse. The Palestinians weren't fulfilling their end of the agreements- the failure of the peace process, especially after camp David II and taba, is widely blamed on the Palestinian side, by those involved and by experts in the area. Netanyahu saw this, and was also aware of the huge international pressure which was and would brought put on Israel to continue the doomed "peace process". He resumed the building of settlements to strengthen Israel's position as much as possible before it was too late. Soon, he was voted out, and the Labor party was back in business, and Barak went against his own population and government's will, not consulting them, as he offered to divide Jerusalem and give up 97% or so of the West Bank. It was international and American interference in Israeli politics that led to this- Barak was Clinton's brainchild. Anyway, my point is Barak's premiership and the last 2 years of terror proved Netanyahu right. If you look at the huge International pressure on Israel, like with the roadmap(concocted by the UN, EU, Russia, and US- all except the US overtly hostile to Israel). How do you see it differently?
What words of ben-Gurion do you refer to, and do they conflict with anything I have said?

05-14-2003, 01:41 PM	#34 (permalink)
crumbbum Crazy Location: CT,NYC,NJ(have been all over)	when you ask what methods were used to establish this foothold, I assume you are talking about the settlements. The settlements were built, and that's about it. No arab property was ever stolen or built on, they were meticulous about this. They just built towns and communities, and people moved there, and that's it. You mentioned Ben-Gurion speaking about the founding of Israel- I assume by this you mean the 48 war? I don't know which words you are referring to. Some arabs were expelled from their villages, and their villages destroyed in the course of the war. This is because many of the arab villages were being used as forward bases, supply depots, and training camps by the arab armies, as well as the the Mufti's gangs in Palestine. That's war for you. Villages that weren't a military threat were left alone. Certainly in some cases the arabs were driven out. That is a reality of war. It wasn't done to steal the land for settlement, it was done for defense. Other arab villages in stategically important locations were seized. It must be understood that if the arabs hadn't declared a war of annihilation on the jews in Palestine, there never would have been any expulsions. The blame for what the jews had to do in self-defense is on the Arab countries, and those among the palestinians, who created the situation. the jews only wanted to live in peace with their neighbors, even asking for peaceful coexistence in their declaration of independence. What do you see as going on with the settlements? I have stated the Israeli governments reasons for building them and supporting them- they strengthen the security of the state of Israel, a tiny country that needs the territorial depth to defend itself if attacked, and also needs to control the high ground in the land. They, in the end, want to retain as much control of the West bank as they can. This isn't surprising. They tried to make peace with the Palestinians, with Oslo, which resulted in the current terror war. In 1996, the failure of the peace accords, and the false premises upon which they had been built had become apparent to the Israeli government. The terror groups hadn't been taken out, and incitement was getting worse. The Palestinians weren't fulfilling their end of the agreements- the failure of the peace process, especially after camp David II and taba, is widely blamed on the Palestinian side, by those involved and by experts in the area. Netanyahu saw this, and was also aware of the huge international pressure which was and would brought put on Israel to continue the doomed "peace process". He resumed the building of settlements to strengthen Israel's position as much as possible before it was too late. Soon, he was voted out, and the Labor party was back in business, and Barak went against his own population and government's will, not consulting them, as he offered to divide Jerusalem and give up 97% or so of the West Bank. It was international and American interference in Israeli politics that led to this- Barak was Clinton's brainchild. Anyway, my point is Barak's premiership and the last 2 years of terror proved Netanyahu right. If you look at the huge International pressure on Israel, like with the roadmap(concocted by the UN, EU, Russia, and US- all except the US overtly hostile to Israel). How do you see it differently? What words of ben-Gurion do you refer to, and do they conflict with anything I have said? __________________ Truth is peace. We are all souls in bodies.