Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - More confederacy debate, and now it's right across the lawn

Superbelt · 01-07-2005, 05:13 AM

JB: great post.

flstf: see JB's great post. They didn't seceed in the correct manner.
The Confederacy never formed a nation. It never had the authority to as it was still a part of the United States. They were simply traitorous states that needed to be brought back in line with the rest of the country.
Our Constitution does provide for the separation of the union, but the Confederate states did so in a manner that WAS treason.

We know that Lincoln, Grant and many other Yankees didn't care about slavery as much as preserving America. But there were plenty in the North who disagreed with slavery and were working to end it. Without the Civil War, slavery would have been outlawed within 20 years. That is why the south secceeded. The tide was moving against them.

konichiwaneko: we know that blacks cared. Black kids who applied to the school were pulling out in great numbers when they learned the school had a hall named after something inherently opposed to their inclusion in society. Those are the black people that matter to Vanderbilt and are the ones they wanted to make the change for.

As is said above me by smooth, my acquaintances and experiences show me that NA's do not like to be called Indians. I didn't know other parts of america have pockets who tolerate or think of it favorably.

You're asian? Not assuming that you are japanese, but this is the best example I can think of. Would you like to live in "The Amache Japanese Internment Camp Hall"

______
Onto the swastika/Confederate Battle Flag comparison. There is one key difference, the swastika started off as a good symbol. It represented life, sun, power, strength, and good luck for various cultures. It was later commandeered by the Nazi's and ruined.

The CBA started out as the banner for traitors to the USA. It stood for a states right to own humans. It was not so much co-opted as just continued in use by later racists. It has been used in modern times for non racist means. But it's entire history has been surrounded by bad.

Shani: You shouldn't be aggravated. I do know all of what happened before the civil war started. I know my american history. I don't appreciate the revisionist history that the south likes to tout though. The Civil War CAN be boiled down to a war over slavery. And the South CLEARLY was doing an illegal seccession. I wouldn't say every member were evil people and deserve villification. The leadership did, the average southern man who died in the war does deserve respect. That doesn't mean that the symbols or ideals of the Confederacy deserves ANY though.

The difference between the confederacy and the sons of liberty is that...
Confederacy was Illegal and does offend other Americans.
American Revolution was done after due process and doesn't offend OTHER AMERICANS.

01-07-2005, 05:13 AM	#38 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	JB: great post. flstf: see JB's great post. They didn't seceed in the correct manner. The Confederacy never formed a nation. It never had the authority to as it was still a part of the United States. They were simply traitorous states that needed to be brought back in line with the rest of the country. Our Constitution does provide for the separation of the union, but the Confederate states did so in a manner that WAS treason. We know that Lincoln, Grant and many other Yankees didn't care about slavery as much as preserving America. But there were plenty in the North who disagreed with slavery and were working to end it. Without the Civil War, slavery would have been outlawed within 20 years. That is why the south secceeded. The tide was moving against them. konichiwaneko: we know that blacks cared. Black kids who applied to the school were pulling out in great numbers when they learned the school had a hall named after something inherently opposed to their inclusion in society. Those are the black people that matter to Vanderbilt and are the ones they wanted to make the change for. As is said above me by smooth, my acquaintances and experiences show me that NA's do not like to be called Indians. I didn't know other parts of america have pockets who tolerate or think of it favorably. You're asian? Not assuming that you are japanese, but this is the best example I can think of. Would you like to live in "The Amache Japanese Internment Camp Hall" ______ Onto the swastika/Confederate Battle Flag comparison. There is one key difference, the swastika started off as a good symbol. It represented life, sun, power, strength, and good luck for various cultures. It was later commandeered by the Nazi's and ruined. The CBA started out as the banner for traitors to the USA. It stood for a states right to own humans. It was not so much co-opted as just continued in use by later racists. It has been used in modern times for non racist means. But it's entire history has been surrounded by bad. Shani: You shouldn't be aggravated. I do know all of what happened before the civil war started. I know my american history. I don't appreciate the revisionist history that the south likes to tout though. The Civil War CAN be boiled down to a war over slavery. And the South CLEARLY was doing an illegal seccession. I wouldn't say every member were evil people and deserve villification. The leadership did, the average southern man who died in the war does deserve respect. That doesn't mean that the symbols or ideals of the Confederacy deserves ANY though. The difference between the confederacy and the sons of liberty is that... Confederacy was Illegal and does offend other Americans. American Revolution was done after due process and doesn't offend OTHER AMERICANS. Last edited by Superbelt; 01-07-2005 at 05:20 AM..