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Originally Posted by Konichiwaneko
Another opinion factor though is yes I do feel very safe because of the war.
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How could invading a country that had no involvement with Al Queda make you feel safer? If anything, it's added to the recruitment drive for terrorists and made America a bigger target; therefore making you
unsafer.
Before the invasion of Iraq, the vast majority of muslims (even militant muslims) saw the US as a lumbering and distasteful opponent. Only the crazies like Mullah Omar and Bin Laden actually thought that it was appropriate to "bring the war" to America, rather than simply fight them when US troops were in Islamic countries (like Lebannon for example).
Now, however, the US has made itself out to be a vast military train, bearing down on all "free Islamic nations"... Invading Iraq was the
worst thing you guys could have done for your security.
And besides, everyone seems to forget (or be brainwashed) that it wasn't anything obvious about 9/11 that was used to justify the invasion, but a vague notion of punishing Iraq for breaking UN sanctions and declarations. The same UN, by the way, that the neo-cons now lambast at every chance.
As an analogy let me refer to Internment during the Irish Troubles. After some terrible terrorist attacks the UK decided to simply round up as many suspected Irish Nationalists, sympathizes and suspected terrorists as possible and intern them without trial. This was the greatest thing they could have done for IRA recruitment as it infruiated most reasonable Nationalists and fostered a sense of persecution. In their actions, the UK had created the biggest recruitment drive for terrorists that had ever happened and ended up doing them a favour.
I see the invasion of Iraq in a simliar light.
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My view of America is that we are a beautiful country, we mean well, but we won't get stepped on. I feel as if we've been fair, and that after enough alarm has been raised to potential harm us we reacted.
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I agree with your first statement, but not your second.
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... but I've firm belief in what I would say is not the moral superiority of the United States, but the Moral reasonablility of the United States.
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And this is perhaps the most insightful, accurate and (dare I say) intelligent thing I've seen on this board for quite some time.
Well put. But so very often overlooked...
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I think from us liberating Iraq we've given them more options then any other country with similiar potential has been available too.
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But this I disagree with. What makes you think any other democracy would have done worse? Italy, France, the UK? In fact, the job of "liberating" Iraq is
more difficult for America than for anyone else. And therefore, less likely to succeed.
As is obvious with each passing day.
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Yes the election on the 30th will cause more problem as it gets closer, but what I'm hoping for is for the people to prevail. As our election got closer, more and more incidents occurred, and I think it rallied more of our voters. Some went for Kerry, some went for Bush but all together the American people voted in larger then normal numbers and they were not intimidated by the cowardly actions of those insurgents in Iraq. I'm hoping the people of Iraq choose who they want, and no outward force (either it us or rebels) try to sway the outcome of the election
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I agree wholeheartedly with you, but I don't have the same faith in people ignoring intimidation.
Remember, we're not talking about a few thousand terrorists here. We're talking about (according to the Iraqi provisional government itself) around
200,000 fighters.
I personally would not go to vote at a centre which I believed had a good chance of being blown up whilst I was there. Let alone suffer the whispering campaign and downright threats from the insurgents in my own neighbourhood as I was observed "collaborating". Be realistic. I doubt you would risk yourself and your loved ones either.
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In the end though I think Iraq may fail because of the people there, and the nay sayers here.
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I don't think it's got anything to do with nay-sayers "here". Do you think the average Iraqi gives a shit what the New York Times or San Francisco Chronicle are writing? I doubt they also watch CNN or Fox. They're too busy trying to find food to feed their starving children and stay clear of the roving bands of US Marines.
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I will offend people by this statement, but I must say it.
I think Iraq has a potential of failure becauase the muslim people is an empire fallen. They were a group who had such beautiful potential yet wasted it away, and now in the face of someone who is willing to help, someone who looks to be in a better situation, they will hold a subconcious contempt for us. Yes many will take us in with open arms, but the small naysayers in the group will spread their gospel like wildfire and anything we've done would begin to offend them and that feeling will fester over time.
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I think there is a germ is half-truth in what you say.
The Islamic culture has failed. Failed to live up to its potential.
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Who am I to say my way of life is better?...all I know is I wake up feeling safer.
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Bizare. I know that I wake up feeling less safe because of Iraq. And rightly so. Look at what happened in Bali, in Jakarta, in Singapore...
And all this just because Australia offered a few troops and moral support to the Bush war machine.
Mr Mephisto