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Banned
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Originally Posted by ShaniFaye
any research will show you that he made that and similar statements MANY times, like I said in my post...its not my job to change your mind....
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Thank you for some very eloquent posts. However, you will never change the mind of a person who, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, makes posts like the following:
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Originally Posted by Superbelt
So I ask again, why do they care about the confederacy so much? Why do they cling to that name? They aren't the confederacy, they are the South, specifically whatever state they are from. The Confederacy was a group of fuckwads who wanted to keep whipping human beings because they weren't picking cotton fast enough.
(Civil War = War for states rights = war for a states right to decide if it's residents can own humans with a high melanin count)
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For those with more open minds, the following, although lengthy, might be of interest (although I think yours was better):
Flags
Quote:
Flags
Diane Alden
April 18, 2001
Last year in his column "Southern History Down the Memory Hole," Paul Craig Roberts told it like it is.
"The War Between the States was not fought over slavery. Lincoln fought the war to preserve the Union. In the second year of the war, Lincoln told the abolitionist Horace Greeley, "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery."
The South wanted out of the Union because the tariffs that protected Northern manufacturers were a drain on Southern agricultural incomes. It is true that there were bloody-minded abolitionists in the North and hotheads in the South, but the Civil War was not fought over blacks.
Roberts is not a racist and neither am I. Making that declaration may not mean anything to a liberal, because Roberts' interpretation of history flies in the face of the left's views on race relations and America's own history. Yes, the South did have slavery, but very few people owned slaves. That does not make slavery right or moral. It is a historical fact.
The left and the politically correct crowd do not wish to hear other facts. For instance, many African-Americans sport Arab or Muslim names, which is kind of ludicrous considering that Arabs were responsible for most of the slave trade. Today, according to the U.N. Commission on Human Rights, slavery still exists in Africa more than in any other region of the world. That is also a fact.
Am I trying to put down blacks? Not on your life. I am merely pointing out something the left has trouble dealing with, and that is historical truths. The truth is that the entire flap about flags has as much to do with ignorance and posturing as it does with personal offense against racism in America.
I have lived in one Southern state or another for 30 years. Having grown up and gone to college in Minnesota, I moved to Atlanta when my then-husband was a pilot for Delta Airlines. Over the last 30 years I have seen breathtaking changes in the South. Many of them have been very good indeed, but certain changes have done more harm than good.
One of them is the terrible disintegration of the educational system. Another is the fact that history is rarely taught and when it is, it is poorly taught. I know something about this, having worked in Southern schools as a volunteer when my children attended, and at one point for a short time as a teacher of special education to behavior-disordered children.
My overview of 30 years as an observer: I have seen good and evil reversed. Truth often has become lies, and lies become truth. I have experienced bigotry for being a Catholic in a small Georgia town and I have experienced incredible goodness and concern by the same people who gave me a hard time for being Catholic.
I have been subjected to black bigotry and white Southern bigotry. But I will not tear down the South or its traditions because of it. I will not condemn either race because of some rotten know-nothings of both races. Nor will I make apologies for those who hate because of color, religion, gender, political persuasion or, yes, even sexual orientation. There is no point to hate for reasons like these.
At present I live in a small town in Mississippi. The church I attend is Catholic. Fifty percent of the members are black. Approximately 5 percent are Latino or Hispanic. Joe Legg is an African-American and plays a soulful bass guitar at mass. The black members of our church are active and do a whole lot of the dirty work of getting the congregation to events and classes and teaching and preaching. Many blacks in the congregation are employed at Rust College, founded in 1866 by the Methodist Church. Some are college teachers who really are Africans who have become Americans. Most hold doctorates from fine schools all over the world.
Why do I bring all this up? Because I have lived with blacks for 30 years and have nothing but respect for those who have earned my respect. I think the feeling is mutual.
That is why the flag issue is a non-starter with me. Trying to destroy the history of a people is the reason behind the move by those who look at the flag of the Confederacy as a "racist" symbol. The problem is that the reasons for the hatred of the Southern cross are based on ignorance of history. It is also a P.C. attempt to claim the moral high ground.
The history of the South and its people is not as simple as saying they were a bunch of racists and slaveholders. It is far more complicated than that. The "War Between the States" was as much about economics as the original revolution that gave us the United States of America. The war was fought to preserve the Union, not to end slavery. Let's at least be honest about that.
On Jan. 1, 1863, U.S. President Abraham Lincoln declared free all slaves residing in territory in rebellion against the federal government. The Emancipation Proclamation actually freed few people. It did not apply to slaves in Border States fighting on the Union side, nor did it affect slaves in Southern areas already under Union control. Naturally, the states in rebellion did not act on Lincoln's order. But the proclamation did show Americans – and the world – that the Civil War was now being fought to end slavery.
Lincoln had been reluctant to come to this position. A believer in white supremacy, he initially viewed the war only in terms of preserving the Union. As pressure for abolition mounted in Congress and the country, however, Lincoln became more sympathetic to the idea. On Sept. 22, 1862, he issued a preliminary proclamation announcing that emancipation would become effective on Jan. 1, 1863, in those states still in rebellion. Although the Emancipation Proclamation did not end slavery in America – this was achieved by the passage of the 13th Amendment to the Constitution on Dec. 18, 1865 – it did make that accomplishment a basic war goal and a virtual certainty.
"Now, therefore, I, Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States, by virtue of the power in me vested as Commander-In-Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States in time of actual armed rebellion against the authority and government of the United States, and as a fit and necessary war measure for suppressing said rebellion, do, on this 1st day of January, A.D. 1863, and in accordance with my purpose so to do, publicly proclaimed for the full period of one hundred days from the first day above mentioned, order and designate as the States and parts of States wherein the people thereof, respectively, are this day in rebellion against the United States the following … ."
Southern History
Right next door to where I live is a small Catholic church that currently houses a museum. The church was originally bought from the Episcopalians in 1859 and became part of the Water Valley district under the Catholic Bishop of Natchez.
Until the new St. Joseph's was built in 1984 the old church housed a small but thriving Catholic population. The church-museum was renamed to honor the memory of seven Catholic nuns and a priest who sacrificed their lives during the yellow fever epidemic of 1878. These clerics treated both the black and white population of the town.
A local doctor who watched the death of a very young nun penned a verse on the wall of the hospital that was a moving tribute to a woman who held a belief he did not or could not understand. These foreigners became Southerners when they died for Southerners of both colors. They were buried in Southern soil. From that day to this, the townspeople have never carried any animosity toward Catholic. They came to understand that courage has no color, gender or religious persuasion.
During the "War Between the States" this little town was used as headquarters for Union troops, and the place is oozing with history. The town suffered much, including occupation of private homes and 60 raids by Union troops. Nevertheless, most of the historic houses were left standing. At one point the Catholic church was occupied by Union troops of an Iowa regiment that proceeded to desecrate it. Some members stole the big silver cross above the altar. One soldier rode his horse in the sanctuary. At the end of the war a very anxious young Union soldier wrote an apology to the members of the church for having been part of the desecration. A copy of his journal entry and letter of apology reside in the museum.
During those dark days, an edict went out to the Bishop of Natchez from the Lincoln administration demanding that he tell his clergy and flock to pray for the success of the Union over the Confederacy. The bishop refused, reminding the government it was not in his power to demand that people not follow their conscience in these matters. As a result he was sent to prison for some months.
But then, lots of bad things happen during wars. This "civil" war which tore us apart is still tearing us apart. Racism has little to do with it these days. Racism is a sickness, but people don't take the cure by being called names or making them ashamed of their heritage, by twisting historical facts to justify one's own views. I have met a few bigots here, but very few racists. Not one person I have spoken to in recent years believes that the white race is superior to the black race or any other – which is what a racist is.
Wars are often about conscience and following that elusive voice. The young men who fought for the Confederacy had no reason to defend slavery. It did very little to make any of their lives better and most was given very little thought when they went into battle. Defending slavery seems a very stupid reason to fight and die. They fought and died because they had been treated for years like a colony of the federal government. They did not appreciate what they saw as "northern aggression" against their economic and political way of life.
Just as today the American West is experiencing the aggression of the East Coast and West Coast establishment against its interests. Just as the American Indian fought so fiercely for a way of life most white men did not understand or appreciate.
Westerners today see that their freedom to choose how they will live their lives is being destroyed one rule and regulation at a time. A growing number feel the Bill of Rights and the Constitution are being torn apart by statist and collectivist thinking. Increasingly these issues are becoming a matter of conscience, just as they did in the South. When one area of the country makes decisions for another, resentment builds up.
It was my great-great-great grandfather's conscience that led him to join the Union Army in 1862. He died in a hospital in Illinois from cholera. Others in my family fought as well, and their letters and thoughts tell about the futility and horror of war. They talk about the Union – not the merits or demerits of slavery. That was for following generations to insert into the "real" reason for the "War Between the States."
This is not an apology for slavery or racism. I relate facts about history and the various and multiple reasons of conscience why wars are fought.
It would be well if Americans recognized that to deny a people their history is to deny their conscience. That conscience may be ill-formed or full of despicable reasoning, but it cannot be denied. Conscience is formed by many factors, and the great theologian St. Thomas Aquinas consistently wrote about its importance. When well formed, it can lead to greatness and nobility. When ill formed, it leads to death and slavery.
In war it is usually the victors who get to write history, and their side is usually portrayed as having few faults. When the North won, it wrote the history. The South came off as despicable and rebellious, and increasingly more often the reason given for the war was slavery. The fact is that the issue of slavery took on more importance as a justification for the war. In the original Constitution states were voluntarily part of the Union and the confederation of states. It had been an original dictum in the Constitutional Convention that states would be allowed the right to secede, the only reason some of the Southern states signed it in the first place. The Civil War changed all that.
Now the Southerner is on the defensive, often feeling the need to justify and prove his loyalty to the United States. Southerners have no need to do this. There are too many of them, black and white, buried in Arlington and other graveyards all over the world. They fought in subsequent wars for the United States of America and the Constitution. They fought for the notion that we are a free country where everyone is allowed an opinion and the right to follow their conscience as long as that does not do violence to others.
The flag issue to them is not about slavery or the oppression of blacks – not anymore. It isn't even about the separation of the races. Flags are also symbols of things like "lost causes." Fighting in conscience for a way of life or for the independence of a region that no longer feels it is represented or able to control its destiny is not an evil thing.
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(Remainder of editorial truncated due to length of post). |