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Originally Posted by roachboy
i understand (but do not agree with) the arguments that you have put forward, mojo, but i confess that i am confused by the underlying position you work from.
i assume that you do not feel that the category of terrorist could at any point be turned on yourself or anyone close to you: which i assume means that you are not yourself a member of any of the groups that bushworld has designated (in pragmatic terms) a priori "suspect" not are connected to anyone who is--i can assure you that if your situation were otherwise, you would view this kind of move askance.
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As far as Gitmo and the context of this thread goes no, maybe one day it could be turned on me, but again I'm not investing any merit in Orwellian conspiracy at this point. Again I don't think this discussion is merely about "terrorists", that's why I kept referencing "illegal combatants". Anyone that has been arrested state side and accused of links to terrorism has been given proper trials (Oregon, buffalo, Michigan?).
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second, you seem to have a touching faith in the bush administration itself--that it is competent, that it is acting in the context of a "war on terror" and not simply using it as a pretext--i am myself totally unconvinced about the question of basic competence relative to this administration, and am not sure about motive. but i am predisposed to not trust george w bush. you do not lie to a country about war and then expect people to trust you. (no need for a rehash of arguments about the legitimacy of this absurd adventure in iraq: if you support it, you will not convince me to follow your lead--so this is little more than an indication of fundamental divergences of views)
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I have faith in my government, it's not blind faith by any means, I would like to consider myself one of the more educated people who support the Bush administration. I don't agree with everything this man or his administration does, but I would like to be able to trust my government for the most part, I don't know how much good it does questioning there every move. I think you should question there moves and motives, but again I have faith that they are looking out for me. I see where you are coming, and I know you know where I stand, so agreed I won't rehash any dead ponies.
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i think this administration is dangerously fond of authoritarian-style actions. to do not think them authoritarian as yet--but i think the tendencies are evident and that they do not require a paranoia to be noted. again, check out the ways in which states of emergency have been used in the past to gut basic freedoms from the inside. usage of it is the primary legal avenue through which such regimes have emerged from within pseudo-democratic context like the american.
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This all could be true, I don't think it only comes down to the administration though, I think it is a depressing evolution of the country and politics in general. To be fair, everything has been ratified by congress, both republican and democrat, the blame can't be solely on Bush's shoulders, I would be equally angry that the Democrats are playing politics and trying to stay afloat by endorsing some of his more questionable actions. If anything as bad as all of you cats say comes to pass it won't be because Bush made it happen, it would be because the congress and the SCOTUS let it happen.