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pan6467 · 01-03-2005, 02:07 PM

Mojo,

I believe all Dred Scott proved was that slaves were property. They were still afforded trials, as were free black men. Doesn't mean those trials were more than a prejudiced jury that was ready for a lynching, BUT they were allowed trials in most cases.

As for your arguments on terrorists, Luciano and Lansky were far far more dangerous and created far more havoc in the US during their day than any of those supposed "terrorists" we hold now. Hell, the Columbians, Russians and gangs are doing far worse things to our country today than any terrorist can dream of. Yet we afford those organized crime figures rights.

It's one thing to argue they are legally being held because of some war, it is another to prove it. Which our government is saying they do not have to do.

Therefore, the government can hold ANYONE they deem as a terrorist with no proof for as long as they like. I'm sorry that is wrong. If we are holding them because they are terrorists then where is our proof? OOO the same government that lied about why we went into Iraq and would change the lie every time the previous one was found to be a lie, says these people are terrorists and we should recognize our virtuous sinless all knowing always right government and have groups where these people can have rights.... but that group over there has no rights at all.

Why not just deport these people back to their home countries? Why are we going to spend millions of our tax dollars to house and feed these people for the rest of their lives. (Or until the Cubans decide they truly don't want us there and start a skirmish and free those hostages.)

Mojo, the argument you make, makes no justification for what we are and what we plan to do. Granted, we have not yet heard of any "US" citizen being held yet, but we have seen a party claim the other unpatriotic, and rile up enough right winged whacks to start movements against speaking out against Bush, peacefully demonstrating against the government, and so on. ALL RIGHTS GUARANTED TO US (CITIZENS ONLY, IF YOU LIKE) BY THE US CONSTITUTION. Hell, I have seen posts on this board that have said in perhaps different words but the meaning is very much the same: "if you disagree with the president and MY politics and our views, then you aid and comfort the terrorists and therefore you are guilty of treason"

It is just a matter of time before WE DO start throwing our innocent neighbors we grew up with in prisons, simply for speaking out and using the rights GUARANTEED THEM.

This is a slippery slope MOJO, once we start sliding down it, we end in the sewer. The madness has to end now, and the recognition that ALL MEN have equal rights needs to be preserved and upheld, or we become no better than the evil we fight.

Actually, we become worse than the evil we fight, because we are showing ourselves to be hypocritical.

01-03-2005, 02:07 PM	#82 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Mojo, I believe all Dred Scott proved was that slaves were property. They were still afforded trials, as were free black men. Doesn't mean those trials were more than a prejudiced jury that was ready for a lynching, BUT they were allowed trials in most cases. As for your arguments on terrorists, Luciano and Lansky were far far more dangerous and created far more havoc in the US during their day than any of those supposed "terrorists" we hold now. Hell, the Columbians, Russians and gangs are doing far worse things to our country today than any terrorist can dream of. Yet we afford those organized crime figures rights. It's one thing to argue they are legally being held because of some war, it is another to prove it. Which our government is saying they do not have to do. Therefore, the government can hold ANYONE they deem as a terrorist with no proof for as long as they like. I'm sorry that is wrong. If we are holding them because they are terrorists then where is our proof? OOO the same government that lied about why we went into Iraq and would change the lie every time the previous one was found to be a lie, says these people are terrorists and we should recognize our virtuous sinless all knowing always right government and have groups where these people can have rights.... but that group over there has no rights at all. Why not just deport these people back to their home countries? Why are we going to spend millions of our tax dollars to house and feed these people for the rest of their lives. (Or until the Cubans decide they truly don't want us there and start a skirmish and free those hostages.) Mojo, the argument you make, makes no justification for what we are and what we plan to do. Granted, we have not yet heard of any "US" citizen being held yet, but we have seen a party claim the other unpatriotic, and rile up enough right winged whacks to start movements against speaking out against Bush, peacefully demonstrating against the government, and so on. ALL RIGHTS GUARANTED TO US (CITIZENS ONLY, IF YOU LIKE) BY THE US CONSTITUTION. Hell, I have seen posts on this board that have said in perhaps different words but the meaning is very much the same: "if you disagree with the president and MY politics and our views, then you aid and comfort the terrorists and therefore you are guilty of treason" It is just a matter of time before WE DO start throwing our innocent neighbors we grew up with in prisons, simply for speaking out and using the rights GUARANTEED THEM. This is a slippery slope MOJO, once we start sliding down it, we end in the sewer. The madness has to end now, and the recognition that ALL MEN have equal rights needs to be preserved and upheld, or we become no better than the evil we fight. Actually, we become worse than the evil we fight, because we are showing ourselves to be hypocritical. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"