View Single Post
Old 05-13-2003, 03:20 PM   #29 (permalink)
crumbbum
Crazy
 
Location: CT,NYC,NJ(have been all over)
Ok, read the article and looked at the map- with regard to the article, I don't think Sharon's response to Powell is very surprising. Every time Israel has made concessions for him in the past it has only brought more bloodshed. In the current US administration, it seems like Powell doesn't hold many cards. He sort of embarassed the US over Iraq, and recently with Syria, he met with Assad. Assad said he would obey and shut down terror group offices in Damascus, which he has not done. Powell said they did, but both Assad and the groups denied it.
Anyway, on the 48 map it says "The UNs decision to recognize Israel's independence in 1948 led to full-scale war and the displacement of 750,000 arabs. First, the number is inflated. At the time of the UN vote there were 809,000 arabs within the borders of the about-to-be-declared jewish state. In 1949 an Israeli government census found 160,000 arabs in the country (Israeli Arabs). There couldn't have been more than 650,000 refugees. In fact, the UN mediator in Palestine found an even lower figure- 472,000. Also, the war began when 5 arab armies arrived to exterminate Israel. Arabs inside the Palestine mandate also were participating in guerrila attacks on jews before the war started. Before and during the war there were a great number of civilian atrocities, incuding the massacre of 77 jews in a convoy on the way to Hadassah Hospital, doctors nurses and patients.
Anyway, as you can see on the 77' map, the early settlements were all built near the vulnerable borders with Egypt, Syria and Jordan. This was done for defensive purposes. Then in the recent map, there are many more settlements. Many more settlements were built. But they were built in unpopulated areas- no palestinians were displaced ever in the building. As it also says, Sharon has stopped building new settlements, but has supported natural growth(the settlements are towns and villages, and the people have children. The population grows. Sharon said to Powell when he mentioned a construction freeze "you want the women to have abortions? This is a valid point- most of these communities have been there for 30+ years. A question that is rarely asked is why must thousands and thousands of jews be evicted from their homes for peace? 20% of Israelis are arab- why can't any jews live within the boundaries of a palestinian state? That is racist. If there were real peace, Israel wouldn't have to defend the settlements from constant attack. Also, the map is somewhat misleading, it looks like most of the west bank is settlements, when that isn't the case. Anyway, as to why so many settlements grew- After the Soviet union fell, more than a million Russian jews fled and came to Israel. Israel is a tiny country, and many of these immigrants moved to the only place there was real estate available, in the settlements. When it comes down to it, the real reason for settlement growth is because people need a place to live. There are a great number of arab settlements as well, if you didn't know. And among the settlements that are illegal, there are far more arab ones than jewish ones. The Israelis do not take down illegal arab settlements for fear of political and media backlash, and also because they don't want a riot. The law is not enforced equally. A number of illegal jewish settlements (they are mostly trailers on hills) have been dismantled.
I really think the settlement issue is not at the root of the conflict. If the Palestinian society over time reformed itself, and really became capable of living in peace, and it was still thought that a second state west of the jordan would bring peace and not war(I have yet to see how this could do anything but lead to WW3), then some settlements, as Sharon has conceded, would need to be dismantled to give them a viable state. The question is whether now is an appropriate time to do that. I think to make any concessions now would only create more violence in the long run and send the message that terror works. You can't appease fanatics or murderers, the best a country can do is defeat them and make peace then, like in WW2. There could be no peace made with the Nazis. They tried to give them czechoslovakia as a concession, hoping that would appease them, but it only emboldened them to continue intimidating and invading. Only after Germany was decisively defeated could peace and reconstruction take place- as a result Germany has been an extremely succesful and peaceful nation for the last 50+ years. Japan also. Times and tactics have changed, but this reality hasn't. You can't make peace with people who are trying to kill you, and mercy to the cruel only begets cruelty to the merciful.
BTW, I'd love to see your pictures. I think amidst the violence and the geopolitics people tend to forget what a beautiful place it is. What exactly did you do there? It sounds really interesting. Thank you for considering what I have to say on this, you are right that so many people don't want to hear anything that doesn't agree with their preconceived assumptions. I see a lot of emotivism forming people's opinions instead of fact. I don't see how anyone can ever understand what goes on there unless they have both a well functioning brain and a conscience, and I often see an absence of one or the other. Alternatively, people are just misinformed, as I was not so long ago. The region is the center of so much international political intrigue, that the truth is often buried in politics. Looking forward to your next post.
__________________
Truth is peace. We are all souls in bodies.
crumbbum is offline  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360