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Old 12-08-2004, 11:07 PM   #27 (permalink)
martinguerre
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Quote:
So how do you get from metaphors and ideas to a belief that this is more than a literary document and represents some sort of literal truth?
Live in it for a while. I hate to be a broken record, but i can't really give a better answer. I'm not suggesting "Try Christianity for a Day" but rather that like any worldview, Christianity can't be explained. It can be shown, demonstrated, and elaborated. But it will never look the same outside in and inside out. i'm also willing to bet my last paycheck that you're using "literal" in a way that has almost no relationship to what i'm talking about.

And ye shall know them by their fruits. Matt 7:16. That's all that list is supposed to do.


Quote:
Neverminding that the resurrection part of the Bible was written hundreds of years after Jesus's death
That's wrong. The story of the empty tomb in Mark is written at about 70 CE, 40 years plus. Matt and Luke are after Mark, no later than 85 CE. John, the last cannonical gospel, is written *no* later than 150 CE, a little over 100 years later. It is far more likely that John is closer to 90 CE. Those guesses aren't even that "conservative." Right wingers will say earlier, some liberals later. But they are very moderate, and have pretty good basis in evidence. Mark is being dated by references to the Temple destruction, John is based on a text fragment. Hundreds of years is off by a LONG way. Oh...Paul writes his letters in 50's CE, and refers to the ressurection constantly. Regardless of if these men, and in the case of "Mark" probably a woman, actually saw the events they record, it shows that in the movement at the time, the ressurection was the common theology.

Quote:
it seems clear that the metaphorical value of the tomb being empty is much greater than a literal understanding of it.
You say metaphorical, i say theological. The honest truth is that it's damn hard to say what ressurection is. but the message is more important than the media, IMO. Easter happened, regardless of if a body was re-animated. People began experiencing Christ risen, and record that powerfully. I have no doubt *something* happened.

Quote:
So, are you saying then, that you take the metaphorical ideas and then change them into your identity? What is the value of taking the leap from looking for wisdom and messages in the text, and then changing that into the foundation of meaning by treating it as literal fact?
When did i ever say literal? It's a language. It lets you say things that you can't in secular languages. It gives you ideas and constructs that allow you to think about things that had been sighs too deep for words (Rom 8:26). It's a deep part of my idenity becuase it's what i had thought about, wordlessly and with frustration. It's a deep part of my idenity because it has brought me to realize the power and beauty of God's love for creation. It's a deep part of my idenity becuase it's given me whys when i had only known whats.
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For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life.

-John 3:16

Last edited by martinguerre; 12-08-2004 at 11:18 PM.. Reason: bad tagging
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