Strange Famous

Interesting point of view, here's how I feel:


Originally Posted by wicked4182
He was alot like Hitler, except his ideas were more extravegant.

1. They were both human beings who recognized that humanity as a whole consists of the weak majority and the powerful few.

Beliveing Jesus to be human is totally valid, if not a universally accepted view, I do not read Jesus' words in this way though. Jesus preached against the rich and powerful, and his teachings undermined their power - ie saying that forexample obeying Jewish religious law really wasnt so important, and that God was there for everyone, not through priests. While Hitler believed in authoritarianism (bad sic!) as a moral good and a necessity, Jesus seems to me to be a popularist, and his claim is different from Hitlers. Hitler believed in the triumph of will and genius, Jesus seems to have believed that everyone was equal before God

2.They both had very powerful ideas which they imposed on 'the weak' (PROPOGANDA!, 'I am your sheperd').

I am not sure that Hitler really was an original thinker, to me his whole politics was the triumph of will over logic (the end point being when he had lost his mind and believed he could still defeat Russia in the Great Patriotic War with sheer will power, even when the Red Army was swarming over his troops and the US poised to invade through France) - Hitler really did not preach anything that was original or radical - his political view was a sham of cheap racism and boom and bust economics, together with internal policies of terror and external policies of pillage and murder... Jesus was not a warlord, he did not preach racial divsions - but the opposite - extending the covenant between God and the Jews to all gentiles as well. But the fundamental difference again was that Jesus at least claimed to stand above worldly concerns, to be "not of this world", all people were weak before God, or death, or the universe... on the whole, Jesus was talking about rather bigger issues, but lacked the violence and hatrid that laced Hitlers thought


3. I consider the philosophy of each to be absurd and harmful to society, today as well as throughout history.


I would agree that Hitlers philosphy was absurd, intellectually bankrupt, and harmful, but I could not say so for Jesus. First of all, if you believe as you say, Jesus was a man, and probably a rather radical rabbi, then it is difficult to know what he really believed, because everyuthing we know of him is at least third hand. But to me Jesus basic philosphy, from my understanding, third hand as it is, of what he said - was inclusive and peaceful. He told people that, for example, eating kosher food really wasnt that important, but to do good, to not lie before God, to love your brother, to seek understanding and self knowledge. To me, this is not harmful, or absurd. I think it is very important to differentiate between what certain radicals today claim Jesus said (I know people who ascribe to Jesus all of the Old Testament as well, which to me does not make any sense at all) and what - to the best of our understanding - Jesus really did seem to say.


4. They both worked to play the part of God (an all powerful being, in other words).

I am uncertain if the historical Jesus was a part of God, or the son of God, or a prophet or just an enlightened man. That uncertainty would also extend to just what Jesus claimed to be as well. Most of Jesus' sayings could be read in numerous ways, but I do not believe he ever claimed to be a God himself, but rather he did claim - through whatever means, to have a true and complete understanding of God


5. The Jews.

quite abig difference, insofar as Hitler pathologically hated Jews, and lead a monsterous campaign of murder against the Jewish people; while Jesus was, and lived and died, as an observant Jew.

In comparison Jesus has been much more significant an individual than Hitler. Because of the bastardized version of what he may or may not have said, Christianity, human society has been rotted to its roots in ways that are difficult to understand (morality, life after death, glorification of weakness, etc...). Hitlers perfection of propoganda has had similar negative effects, just turn on your TV and you'll see, he is alive and stronger than ever.

Anyways, sheep will be sheep. The true nature of our lives in this universe is difficult to face, and the truth is not meant for everyone. Neither of these individuals has been successfull in creating a way of life that fits the needs of the human race.

The main difference between my feelings and yours, first of all, is I have not yet made myself certain of the true nature of our universe - I remain open, and I am still thinking and searching. As for people being sheep - all societies that I know have had some concept of God or divinity - for myself I prefer the Savage of Brave New World's explanation. Hitler, in the sense you mean may not be dead yet, but he is buried, and year by year I truly believe the films and TV shots grow fainter, more distant. He was a very powerful personality, but ultimately we must understand him for what he was - a man who rode a terrible wave of history, to very short term and ghastly results - a man who whiel initially believed to be a brilliant commander, untlimately proved himself to be a hopelessly inept and foolish military tactician, a man who lead his 1000 year reich to total defeat, a pervert and possible paedophile, a degenerate racist and murderer.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas