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Originally Posted by Lebell
I didn't realize that you had a horse in this race.
In any event,
-Ghandi, Mother Teresa and Jesus did not start out rich.
-The myth as you call it appears to be very real, or do you have anything to back up your assertion that it's a "myth"
-At a minimum, Jesus was not "anti-capitalist" as you put it. Jesus WAS of the assertion that the love of money was a serious impediment to the search for God (which I do NOT argue against). (I will not answer for the others, because I do not know. But I would like to see for each of them some proof for your assertion that they are/were "anti-captilist".
-I did no such "parsing", I did however make a clear distinction between providing an environment that was more condusive to pursuing happiness and actually buying happiness (i.e., if I had enough money to buy that car/house/boat/trophy wife/etc, THEN I WILL BE HAPPY, or even, if I can just pay off my credit card, THEN I WILL BE HAPPY!)
Having such an environment is significantly different from having happiness, which is in direct contradiction to what Stompy and Manx seem to believe (that if I won a million bucks then I wouldn't have to work and then I would be happy!)
The failure to see the distinction is IMO, the major stumbling block for many in western culture and also a key part to this entire thread.
-No, debating on the net has relatively little to do with my "happiness". It does however pass the time while scripts run as well as provide some amusement. Occasionally, I like to flatter myself and think that some of the things I post help others understand things in a new way.
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You only need to bone up on some history before you incorrectly assert that:
a) those three people were not wealthy at birth
b) that they were not anti-capitlist
first of all, just use google on Ghandi and Mother Teresa
Here's your first "impoverished" example:
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Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi was born on Oct. 2, 1869, in Porbandar, near Bombay. His family belonged to the Hindu merchant caste Vaisya. His father had been prime minister of several small native states. Gandhi was married when he was only 13 years old.
When he was 19 he defied custom by going abroad to study. He studied law at University College in London. Fellow students snubbed him because he was an Indian. In his lonely hours he studied philosophy. In his reading he discovered the principle of nonviolence as enunciated in Henry David Thoreau's "Civil Disobedience," and he was persuaded by John Ruskin's plea to give up industrialism for farm life and traditional handicrafts--ideals similar to many Hindu religious ideas. (See also Ruskin; Thoreau.)
In 1891 Gandhi returned to India. Unsuccessful in Bombay, he went to South Africa in 1893. At Natal he was the first so-called "colored" lawyer admitted to the supreme court. He then built a large practice.
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here's your second:
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This strong and independent woman was born Gonxha (Agnes) Bojaxhiu in Skopje, Yugoslavia, on August 27, 1910. Five children were born to Nikola and Dronda Bojaxhiu, yet only three survived. Gonxha was the youngest, with an older sister, Aga, and brother, Lazar. This brother describes the family's early years as "well-off," not the life of peasants reported inaccurately by some. "We lacked for nothing." In fact, the family lived in one of the two houses they owned.
Nikola was a contractor, working with a partner in a successful construction business. He was also heavily involved in the politics of the day. Lazar tells of his father's rather sudden and shocking death, which may have been due to poisoning because of his political involvement. With this event, life changed overnight as their mother assumed total responsibility for the family, Aga, only 14, Lazar, 9, and Gonxha, 7.
Though so much of her young life was centered in the Church, Mother Teresa later revealed that until she reached 18, she had never thought of being a nun. During her early years, however, she was fascinated with stories of missionary life and service. She could locate any number of missions on the map, and tell others of the service being given in each place.
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As for Jesus, we'll just allow that he was a historical character for the time being (I don't know what kind of proof you desire as evidence that biblical Jesus was mythological; perhaps you looking up the definition of myth would be in order):
The historical Jesus (and his disciples) was a skilled worker, and would have remained so with his family had he not gone wandering preacher in his adult life, not a pauper.
The mythological Jesus, evidently, was already a king before he eschewed riches and humbled himself to become flesh.
So your point fails on both the historical record and the mythological one.
Your assertions about capitalism and how those three characters are oriented to it are symptomatic of your history lessons in school.
Notwithstanding the fact that capitalism didn't exist in Jesus' day--it's telling that he and his disciples didn't subscribe to private ownership seeing as they lived in communes.
What would a nun have to say about private ownership? Not much in her own life given that her needs were taken care of via the community.
Was Ghandi opposed to capitalism? Even in death, he can speak for himself:
"No doubt, capital is lifeless, but not the capitalists who are amenable to conversion."
"There's enough on this planet for everyone's needs but not for everyone's greed"
Of course, Ghandi had some equally ripe things to say against socialism, so one must temper quotes with his historical context and a fuller understanding of the issues he faced than your commentary wants to indulge in. Suffice it to say that Ghandi felt compelled to argue that capitalists and laborers are not fundamentally opposed to one another and he looked to a time wherein they would co-exist. Now, whether that belief can come to fruition while capitalism operates isn't a subjective determination. But idealism certainly has my respect and a certain place in the global arena.