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Originally Posted by smooth
I have offered a sensible and logically coherent explanation for how murder of a fetus can be illegal and abortion by a citizen of an unborn fetus to be simultaneously legal:
1. The government has no obligation to preserve rights of non-citizens.
2. A fetus is not a citizen.
3. The government has no obligation to protect the rights of a fetus.
4. The government has an obligation to control the behavior of its citizens; particularly in the use of violence, which a "state" asserts monopoly over its use.
5. The state has not asserted a compelling reason to prevent women citizens from exercising rights over their bodies.
6. The state can allow women to exercise control over their bodies while simultaneously preventing other citizens from inflicting violence on citizens, non-citizens, and property.
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Thats a fallacious argument though - by that reasoning I can kill illegal aliens without punishment because they are not citizens, and thus have no rights- and thus the goverment has no obligation to protect the aliens.
The problem still boils down to- when does life begin.
Personally, Im pro-life and I take it on a matter of Faith to some extent, but I disagree with other aspects of it- but hey Im human ( church is against contraceptives, etc).
there is often used a "but the baby wont survive outside the mothers " reasoning to say that life has not yet begun, and thus abortion is not murder. With medical advances though- babies can be born under a pound and still live, grow, and become healthy infants. That argument needs to be rethought in the context of allowing ALL abortions.
That said, I believe the most fair way to come to a agreement on this matter would be, when there is a heartbeat- maybe its down to our premordial instincts, maybe Im just really tired now, but heartbeats convey life. As said above, the idea that a baby cant live outside the mother, is being crushed day by day with advancements in medical technology, and within our lifetimes i believe it will be possible to have- as Sci-Fi has often said " vat grown " babies. - Toss in an egg, sperm, shake - wait 9 monthes- tada!
But back the the point- Heartbeat conveys life in my mind. If thats the best that can be done- so be it.
Then the question though- with aucostic technology, will be hearing the mothers heartbeat or the babies *sigh*
We cant win that one, but lets just say- hypotehtically- we could...
What say you to heartbeat=life?
And PS: this is one of the better threads in politics, because *MOST* of us have been able to remain fairly civil without attacking eachothers beliefs
