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Originally Posted by aliali
If Kerry is right of moderate, what is all this whining about? Would we be listening to all this garbage about leaving the country if he had won? He wasn't going to legalize gay marriage--he was against it; he wasn't going to repeal the patriot act or withdraw from Iraq.
You say the democrats want moderation, but the conservatives don't. I could just as easily say the liberals want a far left agenda, but republicans want to govern from the middle. There are several high-profile moderate pro-choice republicans. How middle of the road are the democratic leaders. Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton?
If your grandfather had been asked at the time of his service what was he fighting for, where on the list would he have mentioned gay marriage. I know, he would have said freedom and you think that included gay marriage. Did he or those serving with him?
You blame conservatives for the bans on gay marriage. Wake up. If Kerry had won, gay marriage would still have lost in every state. Every state. The so-called moderates and independants voted against it. That doesn't make a conservative a yahoo. The fact that a person supports the actual words of the constitution and the 2nd amendment does not make them a yahoo. It would seem to me that more people believe in dinosaurs now than when your grandfather or great-grandfather were in school.
You want out? Get out. I'm staying and I don't need your sympathy for my plight. The people who are fighting for this country right now, who are dying for this country right now, who are risking everything in their service to this country right now overwhelmingly support the current adminstration. Those that do deserve better than to be labeled as yahoos by you. Call them whatever you want, I'll be glad to have them back here when their job is done.
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To be more clear about Kerry's moderation he is SLIGHTLY to the right of moderate, if the lib.-conserv. scale went from 1-100, he would probably be a 54 or something. It goes without saying that he has had to moderate his position to compete with the Republicans on certain issues. The "whining" isn't because Kerry ran on a moderate platform, it's because Bush is decidedly right of conservative. So if Kerry had won it is likely that there would be less whining simply because his administration would have chosen a more moderate path; but we will never know. It's purely theoretical. With the current administration it is a proven fact that they do not want a moderate government--it is evident in their actions.
Gay marriage is an easy target. Many gay people are so used to being prejudiced against that avoiding trouble is a conditioned behavior. They will not fight back or look for trouble, life is hard enough for them in the first place. It so so easy to dismiss homosexuality as abberant that many people don't seem to consider rights for gays because they are not gay themselves. For all the conservative's bluster about upholding the constitution they conveniently forget that all Americans are entitled to "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness"--even gay Americans. Although you correctly point out that more than just the Conservatives voted against gay marriage, the Republicans were nearly entirely united in their opposition to it, while the other parties were less unified. That's why I'm pointing the finger at what I see as the most egregious offenders. As for my grandfather, he was a open and progressive person and always looked for the good in people. I'm fairly certain that he would have seen gay people less as gay Americans, and more as just Americans.
As far as the 2nd Amendment goes, the last time I read it, the "actual words" were the "right to keep and bear arms." Unless there's a sub-amendement that I don't know about that says something about assault weapons. No one's coming to take all your guns away.
Rest assured, I have respect for most of our soldiers (except the lowlifes who are corrupted by power). The best thing that we can do to support them is not involve them in interests that are not directly necessary for the protection of our country.
Finally, I am not offering you sympathy. As far as I can tell, you are going into this with your eyes wide open.