Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - Wondering if I should look for a new job?

asshopo · 11-14-2004, 01:23 PM

Long post, sorry

Ok, so, I have been with this company in 2 different terms of employment that total 7 years minus 8 months that I worked at 2 other companies. For the most part, only the 2nd term applies to my questions, being 4 years this past October.

My Job is basicly:
80% Developer (client/server, web, basic sql dba)
20% Network Admin (server/workstation admin, linux admin including mail/dns/mysql and maintainence)

I am currently paid about $20-25k less a year than salary.com says I should for my field for the amount of time I have been in the field.

I came back to this company at a loss in pay because of the dotbomb era, but was promised a raise when a project was completed. That project ended up being scrapped, and I never got my raise. 3 more years pass and I finally get a 6% raise, the first raise in 3 years. My raise was a 6% raise + being put on salary. Sounds good, but I used to work 50-60 hours a week normally. So basicly, my raise turned out to be a drop in income to the tune of about 5k/yr.

It now has been 4 years since I started again and I asked for a raise. A 5% raise which would put me right back around what I was making hourly. I was told no for a few reasons, the most worring comment being "you have development delivery issues, don't feel bad, you aren't the only one".

Well, "everyone" in development is me and 2 others (we all happen to be friends) so naturally I told them what was up. We all agree that "Development delivery issues" is about 80% NOT our fault. Reasons are, none of us have just 1 hat. In my case, I do the network admin stuff. If a server goes down, I have to call the NOC, find out why, and get it back online, etc. If someone has a virus I have to go fix it. Another reason is we don't have proper management. We dont have a project manager we report to. We report directly to the owner of the company and he says "I want x,y,z" so we develop for that only to find out he wants to add "a,b,c". Well, in alot of companies (including the other 2 I have worked for in the past) have the project manager that will fight and say "no, it can't be done this way right now because it will rip apart the last 5 weeks of dev" and we get stuck with the changes. These changes happen all the time and we get labeled with developers with "Development delivery issues". Doesn't seem right.

Instead of a raise, the boss offered a bonus system. He claims that if I have this project I am currently working on complete on Dec 1st, he will give me a bonus. Now, it is going to take office time + about 50-60 hours outside of work. If the bonuses are worth the time, Id be more than happy to work for it, but the problem I see is that he thinks I am slacking off and in order to get any more pay, I have to go above my position and work all kinds of extra hours to get the pay I should be getting as a developer in the first place.

So, right now, I am facing an unknown amount of time before a raise, a possiblity of a bonus, but not knowing if it is going to be worth it, I can't say if I will be happy with the amount of work needed to get the bonus.

My plan right now is to ride it out, see what the bonus is like and any other projects w/bonuses, but I just have this gut feeling it the time wont equal out to the reward.

What would you do, knowing you are severly underpaid (again, basing that on what salary.com reports for Metro-Detroit for programmer 3)? Ride it out? Stick with it cause the job market sucks (does it anymore?)? I do what they want, their way, and do it for the pay they want to pay. I know I have all kinds of job security, not that they wouldn't fire me if the wanted, but they have no reason to, so that is a concern. Why give up job security, etc?

11-14-2004, 01:23 PM	#1 (permalink)
asshopo Insane Location: Michigan	Wondering if I should look for a new job? Long post, sorry Ok, so, I have been with this company in 2 different terms of employment that total 7 years minus 8 months that I worked at 2 other companies. For the most part, only the 2nd term applies to my questions, being 4 years this past October. My Job is basicly: 80% Developer (client/server, web, basic sql dba) 20% Network Admin (server/workstation admin, linux admin including mail/dns/mysql and maintainence) I am currently paid about $20-25k less a year than salary.com says I should for my field for the amount of time I have been in the field. I came back to this company at a loss in pay because of the dotbomb era, but was promised a raise when a project was completed. That project ended up being scrapped, and I never got my raise. 3 more years pass and I finally get a 6% raise, the first raise in 3 years. My raise was a 6% raise + being put on salary. Sounds good, but I used to work 50-60 hours a week normally. So basicly, my raise turned out to be a drop in income to the tune of about 5k/yr. It now has been 4 years since I started again and I asked for a raise. A 5% raise which would put me right back around what I was making hourly. I was told no for a few reasons, the most worring comment being "you have development delivery issues, don't feel bad, you aren't the only one". Well, "everyone" in development is me and 2 others (we all happen to be friends) so naturally I told them what was up. We all agree that "Development delivery issues" is about 80% NOT our fault. Reasons are, none of us have just 1 hat. In my case, I do the network admin stuff. If a server goes down, I have to call the NOC, find out why, and get it back online, etc. If someone has a virus I have to go fix it. Another reason is we don't have proper management. We dont have a project manager we report to. We report directly to the owner of the company and he says "I want x,y,z" so we develop for that only to find out he wants to add "a,b,c". Well, in alot of companies (including the other 2 I have worked for in the past) have the project manager that will fight and say "no, it can't be done this way right now because it will rip apart the last 5 weeks of dev" and we get stuck with the changes. These changes happen all the time and we get labeled with developers with "Development delivery issues". Doesn't seem right. Instead of a raise, the boss offered a bonus system. He claims that if I have this project I am currently working on complete on Dec 1st, he will give me a bonus. Now, it is going to take office time + about 50-60 hours outside of work. If the bonuses are worth the time, Id be more than happy to work for it, but the problem I see is that he thinks I am slacking off and in order to get any more pay, I have to go above my position and work all kinds of extra hours to get the pay I should be getting as a developer in the first place. So, right now, I am facing an unknown amount of time before a raise, a possiblity of a bonus, but not knowing if it is going to be worth it, I can't say if I will be happy with the amount of work needed to get the bonus. My plan right now is to ride it out, see what the bonus is like and any other projects w/bonuses, but I just have this gut feeling it the time wont equal out to the reward. What would you do, knowing you are severly underpaid (again, basing that on what salary.com reports for Metro-Detroit for programmer 3)? Ride it out? Stick with it cause the job market sucks (does it anymore?)? I do what they want, their way, and do it for the pay they want to pay. I know I have all kinds of job security, not that they wouldn't fire me if the wanted, but they have no reason to, so that is a concern. Why give up job security, etc?