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good post roachboy, i think you cut to the heart of the discussion...
so you've described the way that the european conservatives frame the discussion... but i'm still unclear as to why you consider their model to be either inadequate or unjust. what if what it means to be french actually is to be a white catholic who has a penchant for cheese and wine? i know that is a gross trivialization of the french way of life, but from my brief visits to france it has been made clear to me that the north african population in france (look to marseilles for a prime example) does not understand or identify with any concept of what it means to be french in the way the historically traditional inhabitants do. the divide between the traditional french and their north african immigrants goes much further than religion and skin color. a country is far more than its geographic location for the people who live and work in it. i understand what you're saying about france... i'm not sure i grasp your objection to it.
if you object to framing the discussion around cultural/religious/traditional grounds... in what other way would you understand the situation? if those criteria are irrelevant, then you would soon end up with a france-shaped morocco on your hands. surely you can't fault any frenchman for considering that undesirable.
hopefully this side-discussion about muslim immigrants in france has something relevant to say to the situation in the netherlands.
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If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.
~ Winston Churchill
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