Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - Middle East Peace Plan and the Settlements

crumbbum · 05-12-2003, 12:22 PM

You say they have been terrorizing each other, but again, there is only one side of the equation that continuously targets innocent civilians. It is in the PLO covenant to destroy Israel. Abbas is a PLO vet and Arafat is the founder. I never said Sharon was a saint, but he has admirably defended his country from first arab armies, and then the PLO all his life. Israel has not beena ttacking the palestinians- the palestinians have been attacking Israeli civilians, and Israel has taken defensive measures. The palestinian terrorists are the agressors, and sadly, about 70% of them support suicide bombing. And don't say "they have no other means to fight". Arafat walked away from the negotiating table at Taba without even making a counteroffer, and proceeded to launch a terror war. No, in his heart I sincerely doubt that Sharon wants a palestinian state- but why do you think that is? Someone here said Israel should go back to the pre-67 borders. The problem is, those borders are militarily nearly indefensible, and the middle of the country then is only 7 miles wide, and can be easily split in 2 in an invasion. I have not seen any reason to believe at all that such a palestinian state will ever be peaceful, if it is built on the foundation of the past 2 years of bloody terrorism targeting innocent civilians. How does that create peace? When the PLO had a mini-state in Lebanon, it became a center for terrorists from all over the world, including the Japanese red army, various Arab groups, the IRA, etc. In case you have forgotten the US is in a war on terrorism, and I can't see how yet another arab state in the middle east solves anything. It will likely create another regional war. This state would be a military nightmare for Israel, and this is why so many oppose it. Arab armies could use it as a forward base, as it would cut into the midsection of Israel. In fact, that is the idea in the PLO "phased plan"- set up an autonomous entity with a territorial foothold, and then get the arab armies to attack again. The settlements are the only thing that could maintain Israel's defense if such a state existed, and that's why they have been built for so long. And I don't think "both sides are to blame for being so fucking stupid and racist". I don't see anything racist in a government defending it's citizens from terrorist attacks targeting them. Do you think the US is racist for attacking Afghanistan? Is it racism or is it self-preservation? I have not seen anything to indicate that racism is dictating policy here. I'm sure many Israelis hate the arabs at this point, after so many people have been murdered in the past 55 years(and before). They obviously don't all hate them, because there is arab representation in the Knesset and 20% of Israelis are arab. Remember now that the Palestinian Authority has a controlled media, autocratic government, an education system that teaches hatred (Abbas recently gave the education portfolio to Hamas- no joke). That is what fuels hatred. The only way for there to be real peace is to drain the swamp of the hatred and brainwashing and corruption that creates palestinian terrorism. Leaders like arafat skim billions off the top while their people rot, and feed them propaganda about the evil jews. It was Arafat that walked away from the negotiating table- why? Because he would have had to give up the "right of return", which is a joke. Someone earlier said maybe if Israel pulled back to the post 48 borders they would compromise, but that would be granting it legitimacy, which it doesn't have. The palestinians do not deserve a state, and terrorism should not be appeased. If they really do fight the terrorism, and stop educating their kids to hate, and create transparent institutions and actually start creating real conditions for peace, it would happen. At this point in time, howevver, it is serious foolishness and self-defeating to offer them a state. Why don't we offer Osama the mayorship of new york?

05-12-2003, 12:22 PM	#17 (permalink)
crumbbum Crazy Location: CT,NYC,NJ(have been all over)	You say they have been terrorizing each other, but again, there is only one side of the equation that continuously targets innocent civilians. It is in the PLO covenant to destroy Israel. Abbas is a PLO vet and Arafat is the founder. I never said Sharon was a saint, but he has admirably defended his country from first arab armies, and then the PLO all his life. Israel has not beena ttacking the palestinians- the palestinians have been attacking Israeli civilians, and Israel has taken defensive measures. The palestinian terrorists are the agressors, and sadly, about 70% of them support suicide bombing. And don't say "they have no other means to fight". Arafat walked away from the negotiating table at Taba without even making a counteroffer, and proceeded to launch a terror war. No, in his heart I sincerely doubt that Sharon wants a palestinian state- but why do you think that is? Someone here said Israel should go back to the pre-67 borders. The problem is, those borders are militarily nearly indefensible, and the middle of the country then is only 7 miles wide, and can be easily split in 2 in an invasion. I have not seen any reason to believe at all that such a palestinian state will ever be peaceful, if it is built on the foundation of the past 2 years of bloody terrorism targeting innocent civilians. How does that create peace? When the PLO had a mini-state in Lebanon, it became a center for terrorists from all over the world, including the Japanese red army, various Arab groups, the IRA, etc. In case you have forgotten the US is in a war on terrorism, and I can't see how yet another arab state in the middle east solves anything. It will likely create another regional war. This state would be a military nightmare for Israel, and this is why so many oppose it. Arab armies could use it as a forward base, as it would cut into the midsection of Israel. In fact, that is the idea in the PLO "phased plan"- set up an autonomous entity with a territorial foothold, and then get the arab armies to attack again. The settlements are the only thing that could maintain Israel's defense if such a state existed, and that's why they have been built for so long. And I don't think "both sides are to blame for being so fucking stupid and racist". I don't see anything racist in a government defending it's citizens from terrorist attacks targeting them. Do you think the US is racist for attacking Afghanistan? Is it racism or is it self-preservation? I have not seen anything to indicate that racism is dictating policy here. I'm sure many Israelis hate the arabs at this point, after so many people have been murdered in the past 55 years(and before). They obviously don't all hate them, because there is arab representation in the Knesset and 20% of Israelis are arab. Remember now that the Palestinian Authority has a controlled media, autocratic government, an education system that teaches hatred (Abbas recently gave the education portfolio to Hamas- no joke). That is what fuels hatred. The only way for there to be real peace is to drain the swamp of the hatred and brainwashing and corruption that creates palestinian terrorism. Leaders like arafat skim billions off the top while their people rot, and feed them propaganda about the evil jews. It was Arafat that walked away from the negotiating table- why? Because he would have had to give up the "right of return", which is a joke. Someone earlier said maybe if Israel pulled back to the post 48 borders they would compromise, but that would be granting it legitimacy, which it doesn't have. The palestinians do not deserve a state, and terrorism should not be appeased. If they really do fight the terrorism, and stop educating their kids to hate, and create transparent institutions and actually start creating real conditions for peace, it would happen. At this point in time, howevver, it is serious foolishness and self-defeating to offer them a state. Why don't we offer Osama the mayorship of new york? __________________ Truth is peace. We are all souls in bodies.