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Old 05-12-2003, 10:13 AM   #23 (permalink)
Prophecy
Oracle & Apollyon
 
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i was pressed for time when i wrote this so forgive any mistakes

Quote:
Originally posted by Billage
BoCo, I don't like people who are in shape, so I will just say you don't worship the way I want you to, so forget it.

I don't like blacks, same thing.

I don't like women, same thing.

I hope you can see how easy this would be to manipulate. ANYONE who doesn't fit, I can discriminate against.

This is true but this is also why the bill is limited to faith based organizations, at least that’s what I believe

Quote:
Originally posted by Billage
Why should a Christian bookstore assume that the Goth chick is NOT a devout Christian? Oh, that's right, we've already espoused discrimination based on looks. We've also approved judging without even BOTHERING to find out what the Goth is like.
Simple answer is people are human and humans make judgments based on first appearances and stereotypes.

Quote:
Originally posted by Billage
Speaking of what she wears, and you blew this one Dark_Prophecy, the business is allowed to have a dress code. No one has said that's wrong; Should she refuse to follow it she could be fired. However, at the interview you ask, "will you follow our dress code?" If the Goth says "yes" and you decide to trust her then she likely will, assuming your choice to trust was correct.

The Goth choosing to not follow a dress code is a completely separate issue than choosing not to hire the Goth because of race, religion, sex, marital status, etc. Choosing not to follow a dress code is like firing someone for non-performance, or stealing.
Agreed, following dress code is different from not hiring some for their sexual preference. But they are both forms of forms of discrimation, some people also don't change there dress b/c of their faith, and I was using that as a parallel between the two. Yes, if the Goth choose to follow the dress code she should be allowed to work there, the same with should be true of a homosexual person. But remember we are deal with faith based organizations. I am saying in a case where sexual preference is as important to the church as dress code is as important to the bookstore, than the church should be allowed to refrain from hiring that person. Yes, its discrimation, it’s blatant. But that’s what religion does.(flame if you want but let me explain) Most religions say if you don't hold to our values and beliefs your wrong. You can only become "right" if you follow our beliefs. Christianity as taught by most churches says if you don't follow Christ you’re headed for hell and you can't be saved unless you follow Christ and you can't follow Christ unless you follow the rules in the Bible. Also most churches teach that they are separate beings from the rest of the world and should remain apart from them. Thus not allowing "The World" into there lives except in times when they are trying to convert someone to there faith. Keeping that in mind, to have someone who goes against the church and against this churches interpretation of the faith working in the church would be for lake of a better word, crazy. The only way I can see a church like this allowing a person who is homosexual in and allowing them to work is if the person has admitted there "sin" and is changing there life to conform to the church.

Quote:
Originally posted by billege
Society said: you will pay fair wages, you will provide safe working conditions, you will not make workers stay obscene hours, you may not lock employees in the building, you will not refuse to hire based on gender, race, religion, creed, marital status, age, and (recently) sexual preference.

I suppose you support turning back the clock?
No, I don't support turning back the clock, but American Civil Rights has come long way, but it still has a way to go. But remember this is not the US that this thread pertains to but the UK.

Quote:
Originally posted by billege
If I choose to follow the rules and regulations of the business I am attempting to work at, and I have the abilities to do the job, no one has the right to tell me that I have the wrong belief system for the job. Or, the wrong skin color, sexual preference, gender, nationality, marital status, or political views.
Do you work for a church? What if you wanted to work for a church and the regulations of the business the church runs is that you have to be believer in their faith and follow the rules of the bible, yes you have the abilities but you don't meet all of the qualifations because of the clause that says follow the rules of the Bible which prohibits homosexuality in the old testament. What do you suggest happens then?

Quote:
Originally posted by Billage
The implications of such a law are so vast, I can't believe no one has mentioned any of them....
yes, i know i'm replying to the same quote twice but stay with me here. Billage, I see where you’re coming from and I didn't mention the things you mentioned b/c I figured that would start another can of worms that wasn't completely inline with this thread.

So I guess what i'm saying is reguardless of if you think this is right or wrong, faithbased organizations should be allowed to choose how, who and why, based on the tenats of their faith they hire, if they can't then whats the point of having them? Of course, this whole response seems that I’m justifying forms of discrimation and I am in a way I suppose I am....
I'm just gonna shut now since all my thoughts are starting to run together..
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La Fede È Il Mio Schermo,
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Last edited by Prophecy; 05-12-2003 at 10:42 AM..
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