View Single Post
Old 11-06-2004, 11:52 AM   #6 (permalink)
SecretMethod70
Human
 
SecretMethod70's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Chicago
Quote:
Originally Posted by daking
QED Catholicism Dogma is bolloks.
Thank you for adding great value to the discussion

reiii, that's not really what I'm referring to. Salvation by grace alone is a protestant belief that Catholics do not share. Salvation by grace alone, in fact, would be an argument that baptism is necessary since it is through baptism that one purportedly receives grace.

Vatican II states that all salvation is found through Christ, but it also states that those who are non-Christian may still find salvation, however it is likely more difficult. It states this by recognizing that while the fullness of Truth subsists in the Catholic Church, real truth exists in other religions. Thus, it is reasonable to think it possible that Ghandi, while not Catholic or Christian for that matter, found salvation through Jesus. In short, the Catholic Church does not believe that God faults people for what they do not know. For example, a person born Jewish is not generally exposed to the idea of becoming Catholic and, really, is socialized against the idea. Most people in that circumstance never come to the belief that the Catholic Church is the one true Church and, thus, never reject what they know to be true. So, if a person is raised in such a manner preventing them from seeing the fullness of Truth in the Catholic Church, essentially preventing them from accepting *OR* rejecting it, and that person leads a life that is good, it is possible that that person may find salvation, despite not being baptized and not believing in Jesus.

It follows, then, that if a non-Christian who has lived and had the opportunity to act in ways which he or she knows are wrong may still find salvation through Jesus, that an infant who has simply not been baptized may also do so. In fact, it seems only logical then that those infants do find salvation since they have done nothing which they know is morally wrong and are unaware of any religion.

EDIT: Furthermore, on a personal level, I tend to identify with the philosophy by some Catholic theologians, such as Fr. Andrew Greeley, that the sacrament of baptism is largely symbolic rather than some mystical and instant cleansing. Fr. Greeley wrote an excellent and concise chapter (7 pgs) regarding this in his book, The Great Mysteries.
__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Last edited by SecretMethod70; 11-06-2004 at 12:12 PM..
SecretMethod70 is offline  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360