Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - What would it take for you to not beleive in god

Willravel · 10-24-2004, 08:44 PM

The following is totally and 100% factual. It contains personal information. Viewer discression is reccomended.

I was born the highest level of believer. I was born to a father that was raised in a small California town and attended Lutheran church weekly or more. His pastor told him he would make a wonderful pastor some day. His parents were very simple nice people. My mother was raised in a loosely religious home. They met in college, and got married. They started attending a very nice Lutheran Church in my home town. They became very active in the church, devoting their skills to God via the church. I was born.

Now my dad was a talented landscaper, and my mom was a talented piano teacher. We attended church regularly, and both of my parents would read the bible to me before I went to sleep every night...at 7pm. When I turned 5, just after my little bro was born, my dad made the huge decision to leave his landscaping buisness (that he owned and that was doing very very well) and move us to St. Louis so he could attend Concordia Seminary. He was going to study to become a pastor. We packed. I said goodbye to my gf (I know I was 5, I bloomed early). We left.

Seminary...no... St. Louis was a culture shock. My home town had a lot of asian people. St. Loius had about 3...and they were more filipino (pacific islander), so they wern't technically asian. I also got to meet a lot more black people, a situation I am much better for. I made friends pretty fast, but I still had trouble fitting in. Every night our family would help dad with his studies. We attended a Lutheran's Lutheran church there. I knew more about tht bible than most of the pastors. I had the Luther's small Chatichism memorized word for word. I was just starting to actually understand God, blooming in my mental abilities so to speak. I did okay in school, but I was bored. My main abilitie were in music (thanks to piano lessons since before I could speak), and religion. At about the age of 8 my knowledge of God started to grow beyond simple memorization of facts. I met a really good pastor; one of the ones that honestly cares mroe about the people he serves than the particulars of God. He pulled people in with his great sense of humor and had a great sense of what religion should mean to people. He was the head of our bible school class after the first church service.

After my dad graduated, he was called (or chosen by a church). We moved to a land that time forgot. A small german settled community welcomed us. We went to check out the church. It looked like a bingo hall from the outside. Just a big building with a parking lot. Only one small cross on the outside, and a sign that was hidden by bushes. The congregation was made up entirely of grandparents. We got settled and our goal came to try and help the congregation to grow, and to become more diverse. My dad and I bought some lumber and buildt a huge cross to put on the side of the building. The irony of God's followers building a giant cross out of wood for Him later dawned on me...but back to the story.

It slowly became apparent that our congregation had a systemic infection. There were underlying feelings of anger and hostility. The lovely grandparents turned out to be very much racist and intolerant. When we started to bring people that were asian, black, latino, indian, etc. they treated them terribly. Eventually they turned on us. Suddenly God's followers had beecome vicious beasts. We tried to fix the problem, but it was impossible. We took a call to another curch, and shortly after we left the church we left broke apart.

I was pretty pissed at God for a while...but I slowly realized that God was not in that church. I realized that God wasn't connected to organized religion as I had been told. I still go to church pretty regularly. I am not a beliver in organized religion, but I am a firm believer in God. I know it sounds sappy, but I know he's there.

People can argue that God is a fabrication. They can argue that God doesn't fit in with logic, or science, or sanity...I don't care. That isn't relevent to me. I am a follower of Jesus' teachings. I find that what He said gives life a little more meaning, and it makes me happy.

In addition to Jesus, I am also a follwer of the teachings of the Buddha, and of the Tao. As that is a completly different argument or conversation - depending on how you feel about it - I will leave that as it is.

Now that I'm done rambling, let's get to the question at hand. BTW, darking, that's one hell of a question. I was reading through TFP aimlessly when your question made me sit back and think for a while. As you can see from above, I am about as die hard a christian as there are out there. So what would it take to undermine an experience that has been a foundation of who I am? There in lies the amswer. As God has been a foundation of who I am, it would take something resetting me...like a reboot of my mind, in order to brake my belief in God. What could reboot my mind? That's the question I've been pondering.

1) A fundamental shift in the world around me. If there were a major and sudden poilitical shift in the world, such as America being attacked with nuclear weapons by an ally, could make me question how he could allow such a thing. If the government shifted to an obvious totalitarian rule, would be another example.
2) A fundamental shift in what I think God is. If Shiva were to appear in front of me right now and explain how Christianity is based on a great man, but not a God. Than after that, Shiva (or some God from another religion) were to conclusively prove to me that God was a creation of man, and that he/she was able to show me his/her power that is far beyond my understanding.
3) A fundamental shift in science. If some great leap in science was able to explain that the human mind has the power to actually created God, then I would have nothing to believe in.

It's okay to worry about the existence of God. It's normal for humans to question beliefs. What you have to ask yourself is: Does God make my life better, or worse? If the answer is worse, let it go. I'm sure that God does not want to be a burden to you. Continue a life where you try to be good and moral. If the answer is better, enjoy your relationship with God. The creator of the universe loves you. You can't top that!

10-24-2004, 08:44 PM	#22 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	The following is totally and 100% factual. It contains personal information. Viewer discression is reccomended. I was born the highest level of believer. I was born to a father that was raised in a small California town and attended Lutheran church weekly or more. His pastor told him he would make a wonderful pastor some day. His parents were very simple nice people. My mother was raised in a loosely religious home. They met in college, and got married. They started attending a very nice Lutheran Church in my home town. They became very active in the church, devoting their skills to God via the church. I was born. Now my dad was a talented landscaper, and my mom was a talented piano teacher. We attended church regularly, and both of my parents would read the bible to me before I went to sleep every night...at 7pm. When I turned 5, just after my little bro was born, my dad made the huge decision to leave his landscaping buisness (that he owned and that was doing very very well) and move us to St. Louis so he could attend Concordia Seminary. He was going to study to become a pastor. We packed. I said goodbye to my gf (I know I was 5, I bloomed early). We left. Seminary...no... St. Louis was a culture shock. My home town had a lot of asian people. St. Loius had about 3...and they were more filipino (pacific islander), so they wern't technically asian. I also got to meet a lot more black people, a situation I am much better for. I made friends pretty fast, but I still had trouble fitting in. Every night our family would help dad with his studies. We attended a Lutheran's Lutheran church there. I knew more about tht bible than most of the pastors. I had the Luther's small Chatichism memorized word for word. I was just starting to actually understand God, blooming in my mental abilities so to speak. I did okay in school, but I was bored. My main abilitie were in music (thanks to piano lessons since before I could speak), and religion. At about the age of 8 my knowledge of God started to grow beyond simple memorization of facts. I met a really good pastor; one of the ones that honestly cares mroe about the people he serves than the particulars of God. He pulled people in with his great sense of humor and had a great sense of what religion should mean to people. He was the head of our bible school class after the first church service. After my dad graduated, he was called (or chosen by a church). We moved to a land that time forgot. A small german settled community welcomed us. We went to check out the church. It looked like a bingo hall from the outside. Just a big building with a parking lot. Only one small cross on the outside, and a sign that was hidden by bushes. The congregation was made up entirely of grandparents. We got settled and our goal came to try and help the congregation to grow, and to become more diverse. My dad and I bought some lumber and buildt a huge cross to put on the side of the building. The irony of God's followers building a giant cross out of wood for Him later dawned on me...but back to the story. It slowly became apparent that our congregation had a systemic infection. There were underlying feelings of anger and hostility. The lovely grandparents turned out to be very much racist and intolerant. When we started to bring people that were asian, black, latino, indian, etc. they treated them terribly. Eventually they turned on us. Suddenly God's followers had beecome vicious beasts. We tried to fix the problem, but it was impossible. We took a call to another curch, and shortly after we left the church we left broke apart. I was pretty pissed at God for a while...but I slowly realized that God was not in that church. I realized that God wasn't connected to organized religion as I had been told. I still go to church pretty regularly. I am not a beliver in organized religion, but I am a firm believer in God. I know it sounds sappy, but I know he's there. People can argue that God is a fabrication. They can argue that God doesn't fit in with logic, or science, or sanity...I don't care. That isn't relevent to me. I am a follower of Jesus' teachings. I find that what He said gives life a little more meaning, and it makes me happy. In addition to Jesus, I am also a follwer of the teachings of the Buddha, and of the Tao. As that is a completly different argument or conversation - depending on how you feel about it - I will leave that as it is. Now that I'm done rambling, let's get to the question at hand. BTW, darking, that's one hell of a question. I was reading through TFP aimlessly when your question made me sit back and think for a while. As you can see from above, I am about as die hard a christian as there are out there. So what would it take to undermine an experience that has been a foundation of who I am? There in lies the amswer. As God has been a foundation of who I am, it would take something resetting me...like a reboot of my mind, in order to brake my belief in God. What could reboot my mind? That's the question I've been pondering. 1) A fundamental shift in the world around me. If there were a major and sudden poilitical shift in the world, such as America being attacked with nuclear weapons by an ally, could make me question how he could allow such a thing. If the government shifted to an obvious totalitarian rule, would be another example. 2) A fundamental shift in what I think God is. If Shiva were to appear in front of me right now and explain how Christianity is based on a great man, but not a God. Than after that, Shiva (or some God from another religion) were to conclusively prove to me that God was a creation of man, and that he/she was able to show me his/her power that is far beyond my understanding. 3) A fundamental shift in science. If some great leap in science was able to explain that the human mind has the power to actually created God, then I would have nothing to believe in. It's okay to worry about the existence of God. It's normal for humans to question beliefs. What you have to ask yourself is: Does God make my life better, or worse? If the answer is worse, let it go. I'm sure that God does not want to be a burden to you. Continue a life where you try to be good and moral. If the answer is better, enjoy your relationship with God. The creator of the universe loves you. You can't top that!