Thread: Ultimate God?
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Old 10-23-2004, 12:28 AM   #20 (permalink)
Mr Zen
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Location: Alberta, Canada
Quote:
Just because God is omnipotent doesn't mean that we don't have free choice. That only means that he knows what we're going to choose.
Nope. Wrong. When god creates the universe in the begining, he sets in motion cause and effect. The deistic cause and effect theory has been put forward by your own St. Thomas Aquinas. Also, you can look at the 'principle of sufficient reason', essencially says the same thing as St. Thom with a few slight differences.

Both theories essentially state that the chain of events that have lead to the present are all a result of a previous cause ie Cause 5 --> C4 --> C3 --> C2 --> C1 --> Ending (or beginning however you want to look at it) with a necessary being or event. Xianity says that this necessary being is God. (I say bullshit, but that's just me.)

The problem with this is that if god is omnipotent, omniscient, and a whole hoard of omni-things that he claims to be, then in the instant that god creates the universe, by definition of his qualities, he has knowledge of the full spectrum of time and space. By full knowledge we're talking about everything, including the atoms that were split to destroy two cities, full of people, in Japan in the 1940's.

Interestingly enough this also obsolves you of many of the things that xians hold dear. Judgement upon death, how can god judge you if he caused you to everything that you did? Prayer, god ain't doin' nothin' more for you bud, he made his choices in the beginning, nothing you say is going to change that because he already knows what you are going to say and discounted it. And so forth, and so forth. Use this method to discount pretty much anything in the Bible. Either there is no such thing as free will... or God is not omnieverything, in which case I see no need to worship him anyway.



(There's also the famous qoute about omnipotence, "If God is all powerfull, can he make a rock so big that even he can't lift it?" Toss that around for awhile. )
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