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roachboy · 10-21-2004, 08:37 AM

thanks, cthulu, for the last post because it explains what i was asking about with the notion of truth that was being thrown around earlier....if your position obtains, as i think it does, then the manipulation of premises that enable people to order their sense of being-in-the-world is a powerful tool for domination--if the population is largely credulous--uncritical, accepting...

it is as a function of this type of manipulation of premises that i see something authoritarian about contemporary conservative discourse in that it appears to function to seal its constituency off from a descriptive relation to the work and to short circuit modes of critique, both from those who operate outside that framework, and for those who work within it relative to the frame itself.

you can see these features clearest in two areas: the dominant conservative discourse itself, which has been deployed full-blown since 911, and in conservative philosophies of education, which seem to privlege a reverence toward a largely mythical construct of american history, conflated with a fundamentalist notion of religious faith, and thereby tries to repress possibilities for a critical relation to the world in kids who are unfortunate enough to pass through this kind of educational system.

irate:
the "suppression of truth" problem in orwell's novel is something staged by orwell himself--i think because he relayed the content of the novel from an exterior veiwpoint in a dickens-like mode. so his position--and yours as reader--can be clear, detached, etc.

which points to a limitation in using 1984 as a jump-off for any meaningful critique of what might be happening in real time---since the framework that is at issue in this thread, for example, is the same that shapes how we operate, detachment in the way orwell stages it is not possible, on the other hand, that we function within a shared frame of reference in very divergent ways politically indicates that there are possibilities for reflexivity, for thinking about the environment that shapes how we operate, and different ways of viewing what we think about--so the authoritarian tendencies i see in contemporary america is a matter of degree, something partially implemented, a tendency.

what i find unsettling in this tendency is its invisibility for significant segments of the population---lilke any effective form of domination, this one speaks a language of "common sense" using categories like "nation" to generate adherence....in tandem with the comments above about conservative discourse and educational views.

10-21-2004, 08:37 AM	#118 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	thanks, cthulu, for the last post because it explains what i was asking about with the notion of truth that was being thrown around earlier....if your position obtains, as i think it does, then the manipulation of premises that enable people to order their sense of being-in-the-world is a powerful tool for domination--if the population is largely credulous--uncritical, accepting... it is as a function of this type of manipulation of premises that i see something authoritarian about contemporary conservative discourse in that it appears to function to seal its constituency off from a descriptive relation to the work and to short circuit modes of critique, both from those who operate outside that framework, and for those who work within it relative to the frame itself. you can see these features clearest in two areas: the dominant conservative discourse itself, which has been deployed full-blown since 911, and in conservative philosophies of education, which seem to privlege a reverence toward a largely mythical construct of american history, conflated with a fundamentalist notion of religious faith, and thereby tries to repress possibilities for a critical relation to the world in kids who are unfortunate enough to pass through this kind of educational system. irate: the "suppression of truth" problem in orwell's novel is something staged by orwell himself--i think because he relayed the content of the novel from an exterior veiwpoint in a dickens-like mode. so his position--and yours as reader--can be clear, detached, etc. which points to a limitation in using 1984 as a jump-off for any meaningful critique of what might be happening in real time---since the framework that is at issue in this thread, for example, is the same that shapes how we operate, detachment in the way orwell stages it is not possible, on the other hand, that we function within a shared frame of reference in very divergent ways politically indicates that there are possibilities for reflexivity, for thinking about the environment that shapes how we operate, and different ways of viewing what we think about--so the authoritarian tendencies i see in contemporary america is a matter of degree, something partially implemented, a tendency. what i find unsettling in this tendency is its invisibility for significant segments of the population---lilke any effective form of domination, this one speaks a language of "common sense" using categories like "nation" to generate adherence....in tandem with the comments above about conservative discourse and educational views. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 10-21-2004 at 08:41 AM..