View Single Post
Old 05-11-2003, 06:01 AM   #33 (permalink)
4thTimeLucky
Psycho
 
Location: 4th has left the building - goodbye folks
Mad-Gecko
So do you think it was right that Mr.Martin went to jail?

My argument is:
i) Every person has a right to defend themselves using only reasonable force.
ii) A person who uses unreasonable force to defend themselves should be punished.
iii) Mr. Martin used unreasonable force to defend himself.
iv) A prisoner who threatens to act in the same way again and show no repentance or remorse, you should not get parole.
v) Mr.Martin has said he would do the same again (despite the air raid siren stuff) and shows no repentence or remorse.
ii + iii) Mr.Martin should be punished/ in prison.
iv + v) Mr.Martin should not be released early.

Tried to make that a nice bit of predicate logic for you. So the floor is open to say which of my premises (i to v) you disagree with, or you can challenge whether the conclusions follow from the premises.

If logic isn't your cup of tea, then consider your argument that burglars give up their rights when they commit the offence. I have some questions for you:

1) Which crimes mean you lose your rights? Murder, theft, fraud, speeding, jay walking....
2) Do you always lose all of your rights when you commit these crimes?
3) If you do lose your right to life, then can anyone kill you (presumably yes as you're are an 'outlaw') or do you only lose your right to life in regard to your victim?
4) Is this lose of rights time limited? Can Mr.Martin trap the burglar and then torture them for the rest of their life? If not, then how many hours/days/weeks do you lose your rights for?
5) What if two people both commit crimes in regard to each other, do you both lose all rights or does the right-losing cancel itself out?
6) Assuming you are not killed, when do you regain your rights? When you leave the house? When you leave the property? When you return everything you've stolen?

I have a few more questions on your theory, but I think six is enough for now.

I look forward to hearing your answers.

PLEASE NOTE: This is not just intended for Mad_Gecko. Every one of you who believe that Mr.Martin and anyone else has the right to kill intruders should be able to say what is wrong with my argument at the top of this page and then answer the questions at the bottom. If you find the argument solid, or some of the questions silly, then maybe it is because your position is silly and that something as fundemantal as the right to life is not something you lose when you try to steal something as trivial as a piece of furniture.
__________________
I've been 4thTimeLucky, you've been great. Goodnight and God bless!

Last edited by 4thTimeLucky; 05-11-2003 at 06:07 AM..
4thTimeLucky is offline  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360